Posts by neverendingjourney

44

It's Over Johnny....The Demise of Jehovah's Witnesses

by ctrwtf in

jw
friends

i think i've mentioned before that from time to time my commute on the bqe takes me past the old factory buildings and the soon to be former headquarters building.

i was struck the other day with how shabby they've become.

even 25 columbia heights, still currently occupied, its facade is filthy.

neverendingjourney

But what if we've misread all this?

Are the two ideas mutually exclusive? Could the transformation to a real estate development model be motivated by declining cash flows from the publishing model?

28

"Scientist Discover Atheists Might Not Exist..." "This is not a Joke!"

by JWCart in

crofty can you please break this article and main points down for the average individuals to understand, i found this article and thought of you, thought you might be interested in this topic too.

i don't fully understand it, can you please help us, you are our "resident expert" on this topic!

will you please break it down for us as to what it means and how it affects us brains?

neverendingjourney

The recent gravitational wave fiasco was a great disappointment. Folks like Lawrence Krauss were on television the next day proclaiming that it "gave us a glimpse of the bing bang."

From what I understand, the findings had not been confirmed when the announcement was made and the scientists working on it were transparent about it. Upon further scrutiny, the waves were actually dust. Thankfully, the "retraction" barely registered in the media.

One thing we don't need is more "science was wrong" fodder for knuckle-draggers to hang their hopes on.

28

"Scientist Discover Atheists Might Not Exist..." "This is not a Joke!"

by JWCart in

crofty can you please break this article and main points down for the average individuals to understand, i found this article and thought of you, thought you might be interested in this topic too.

i don't fully understand it, can you please help us, you are our "resident expert" on this topic!

will you please break it down for us as to what it means and how it affects us brains?

neverendingjourney

As the author rightly points out many people who identify as atheists actually believe in all sorts of supernatural nonsense. The lure of superstition is very strong.

Full disclosure: I'm an atheist.

I was watching a YouTube clip of an interview with an English physicist. The interviewer is a science enthusiast who usually posts videos of a scientific nature. The multiverse came up as a topic and the physicist quite reasonably argued that it's a promising hypothesis in that it would provide an explanation for a lot of phenomenon that science can't currently explain. However, there is no physical evidence substantiating the theory and it's difficult to conceive how such a theory could be testable. Therefore, it isn't science and can't be considered "real."

This line of reasoning was not well received and the interviewer fell back on arguments usually heard from the mouths of creationists. "But you can't prove the multiverse DOESN'T exist." "Just because there is no physical evidence for the multiverse doesn't mean it's not real." That sort of thing. If you had replaced the "multiverse" with "god" you would easily think it was a creationist arguing with a scientist.

I'm worried that scientists are overselling string theory and untested or untestable hypotheses to the public. I re-watched the original Cosmos and there was very little speculation in it (outside of Sagan's confident comments regarding the probability we'd eventually find evidence of life on Mars' soil). It stands the test of time as opposed to the Neil deGrasse Tyson remake that prominently features yet-unproven speculation.

11

Ooops. They're back at the anti-type game.

by scotoma in

jw
friends

i thought it was ex"plane"d at the corporate meeting that type-antitypes were finished unless it expressly is stated in the bible.. from the feb 22 study article.

question on paragraph 11- what comparison found at psalm 122:3,4 could be applied to god's people today?.

during the coming time of trouble for this system, we will have to be truly united.

neverendingjourney

Their most famous type/anti-type is the "seven times" is Nebuchadnezzar's tree dream where his insanity for 7 years is compared to the gentile nations' 2520 years of rule until 1914.

This was one of those things where when I was a teenager who wanted badly to believe, the explanation in the Live Forever book made a lot of sense.

A year or two later I revisited that story in its proper context during a personal reading of the book of Daniel and for the life of me I couldn't understand how that dream applied to something other than the 7 years Nebuchadnezzar spent in madness. The bible was very clear about the dream and its application, but somehow we were supposed to take at face value that the tree represented god's kingdom, the chopping down of the tree the destruction of the second temple, the seven years seven times, blah, blah.

It's an incoherent mess and the only explanation they can offer up is "because we say so."

11

Update

by freemindfade in

so since i blew up at my family for being self righteous hate mongers, my uncle sent me a huge letter calling my ignorant and uncaring.

to which i exploded back with an email.

may have gone a bit too far on that one, but whatever what is done is done.

neverendingjourney

They fear having to make that choice between us and the organization, and they would rather us pretend for their sakes.

I stopped going to meetings 9 1/2 years ago. I was certain things would come to a head, that I'd end up disfellowshipped and lose my family (I was and still am single).

To my surprise nobody confronted me about it. My parents were over at my house this past weekend and I'm going on vacation with my brother and his family this summer. My relationship with another sibling has been damaged, but I suspect that's mostly due to unrelated reasons. Outside of inviting me to see my 11 year old nephew get baptized (I'm still pissed about that, but I held my tongue), they don't hassle me about meetings. They don't even pressure me to go to the memorial anymore.

The presiding overseer made one phone call to me after I moved away and stopped going to meetings, but it was clear from the tone of his voice and from what he said that he was calling to check the box and had no desire to hear a confession or inquire about my personal life. The inquisition I feared never materialized.

That being said, I'm a pretty well-adjusted guy who left because it became apparent that what they were peddling wasn't truth. Things might have turned out differently had I adopted a sex, drugs and rock and roll lifestyle, but I'm still the same guy I've always been. They don't know what to do with me, so they just don't pry. And I don't have any desire to confirm the obvious either.

44

It's Over Johnny....The Demise of Jehovah's Witnesses

by ctrwtf in

jw
friends

i think i've mentioned before that from time to time my commute on the bqe takes me past the old factory buildings and the soon to be former headquarters building.

i was struck the other day with how shabby they've become.

even 25 columbia heights, still currently occupied, its facade is filthy.

neverendingjourney

I don't think "demise" is the word I would choose, but there is a mountain of evidence that points to clear cash-flow problems and a gradual morphing of the religion's structure. Their model for generating cash is dying. People are increasingly consuming information online, which means they've had to significantly scale down their printing operations. This in turn means the advantages they once had given the economies of scale they were operating with have likely disappeared.

Couple that with the least educated membership of any major denomination and it's clear to see why they need to sell of properties to increase the amount of cash available to them. Literature "sales" are down and their members are not in a position to contribute lavishly.

This doesn't mean that the religion will cease to exist, but it will by necessity have to morph into something different. I think this is what we're currently seeing: selling off prime real estate, building cheaper buildings where the cost of land is cheaper, and attempting to build and online presence to sell their brand. They may be forced to relax their stand on higher education soon. They need membership to contribute more.

33

Within one minute JW with trolley directs me to JW.org

by steve2 in

i live in relatively small seaside community (regional population around 45,000).

in my ten years here, i've had witnesses call on me perhaps twice (not special visits but during door-to-door).

whereas they once canvassed door-to-door much more frequently - and in larger size service groups - there is quite a decline in their door-knocking - at least in this region.. with the advent of the "trolley" work, their visibility has increased - but i'd estimate only marginally.

neverendingjourney

How sad.

The peak of my involvement was in the mid 90s and I already felt back then that a changing of the guard had taken place.

I was in the salvation business. I believed every word of what they taught and approached field service with that mindset. Yet probably 80 percent of the publishers were there just to count their time.

It was discouraging, but I got the impression that the battle had already been fought and the time counters had won. I remember old-timers who spoke of the not-so-distant past when every publisher was expected to explain the major doctrines plainly using only the Bible.

By the time I left, roughly ten years later, the percentage of time-counters had gone up to 90 percent or more and the old-timers rarely brought up those stories anymore.

By the reports I read here, it seems like are few if any JWs in the salvation business business anymore and who can blame them? How can you remain zealous when the doctrine you supposedly believe no longer possesses any basic internal coherence?

77

New LDC Meeting KH Video

by wifibandit in

been away from the site for a few days...because i have been busy getting these!!!!!!

(pixel, thank you!

) they did not make it easy, plus technical difficulties.. for the main attraction:.

neverendingjourney

I'm inclined to view this as a cash-grab, an effort to receive perpetual rents from the congregations and to construct buildings that are easier to sell (and reap the windfall of the free labor that was used to build them).

If they are this hard-up for cash, when do they change their stance on college? Better educated members generally leads to membership with higher salaries. Better-paid members would in theory be in a position to contribute more.

I'm not envisioning an LDS wholehearted embrace of higher education, but perhaps encouraging young ones to consider two-year degrees in trades and eliminating the stigma around bachelor degrees.

3

Site Update: Feb 5, 2014

by Simon in

just a quick update .... there was an issue with password reset / email sending not working which is now fixed.

if you've tried to do anything with your account that involved getting an email and instead got a server-error then it should be fixed now and can be retried.. my apologies for the inconvenience..

neverendingjourney

Thanks. That took care of it.

3

Site Update: Feb 5, 2014

by Simon in

just a quick update .... there was an issue with password reset / email sending not working which is now fixed.

if you've tried to do anything with your account that involved getting an email and instead got a server-error then it should be fixed now and can be retried.. my apologies for the inconvenience..

neverendingjourney

I haven't been following these threads closely and maybe this has already been addressed, but I'm showing 7 messages in my inbox when I actually don't have any new mail.