Posts by OnTheWayOut

80

Are we losing our way a bit at JWN?

by nicolaou in

firstly, i want to be crystal clear how grateful i am for jwn.

it's been my place of support for over seventeen years and it's the first online space i direct anyone to if they are taking steps out of the cult.

i am not bashing jwn - i love this place and appreciate the hard work and expense simon puts in to keep it going.

OnTheWayOut

I appreciate that we can speak our minds, unlike our inability to do so in the cult we escaped from.

And the internet forums pretty much are the right place to debate. Anyone who isn't into Trump or Atheist debates can move to another thread. I just wish so many can not make it so personal in attacking differing views.

When I say something strong against "belief," it'll be because someone was saying something strong for it. But I don't ever think I should belittle the person. Calling people stupid never helps.

19

Accounts report at Circuit Assemblies to go away

by LevelThePlayingField in

i was at the regional convention and asked an elder why is that at the assemblies their is an accounts report but not at the conventions?

he said, well actually they got a letter and in it said that in a little while they will do away with the accounts report stating how much the assembly costs for the weekend and just go to donation basis like at the conventions.. my first thought was, "they will donate even less now.".

anybody else hear about such a thing?.

OnTheWayOut

If a deficit announcement is done away with, then there will be something to replace it like a bill to each congregation (in the form of a request to cover expenses). Perhaps, it would be another way to see which congregations are paying up and dissolving those that are not.

6

Could the ancient Jews eat pig fractions?

by JeffT in

jw
friends

the recent threads on blood fractions got me to thinking about ways to expose the absurdity of the watchtower's position on blood.

so i thought of the titular question.

would a hebrew have understood the prohibition on pork as meaning he had to avoid "major" pig fractions (ham, bacon, ribs) but "minor" pig fractions like pickled feet and fried pork rinds were ok?

OnTheWayOut

Very good, very funny JeffT.

I am trying to think of how to phrase another one- Could the end of the Gentile Times be different from 1914 because they forgot the overlap?

27

Has the Governing Body ever been right?

by Jules Saturn in

i asked this question to a relative after mentioning several situations where teachings were changed or readjusted (new light) and they have two reasons.

yes, they are correct because look at how the preaching work has grown through the decades and the advancements in witnessing and the second reason was the doctrine of the trinity and how the society opposes that.

i didn’t really have a response, especially for the trinity doctrine.. does the governing body have the rejection of the trinity belief correct?.

OnTheWayOut

In an effort to increase the church membership, many Pagans were brought in and with the Pagans came Pagan ideas. Rituals began to replace serious Bible study and differences in opinion soon became the basis for growth of various creeds and sects. Over the span of many years, man-made rites became time honored tradition.

The Trinity snuck in there past the time that the writings known as the Gospels were already written. Credit for the term "trinity" is given to Tertullian who wrote it early in the 3rd century, and it became dogma between the Council of Niceae in 325 and the Council at Constantinople in 381.

YADDA YADDA YADDA!!!

Generally speaking, the Governing Body is mostly right that the Trinity is not of the Bible and is born of pagan origins creeping into Christianity.

But the Governing Body and it's predecessors are guilty of doing the same thing- changing doctrines to gain membership. The end of this system coming within "a generation" and the no-blood policy were born to make the cult stand out.

53

Make America Great Again Hats...would you wear one?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i like trump but i would be reticent wearing that hat.🤠.

OnTheWayOut

On....you believe everything cnn says? I don’t .

No, I know media spins things and runs with a fraction of truth to shock or alert viewers. But my main comment was about your other statement- "What’s more pathetic is the sheeple who follow whatever the libs tell them to believe in!"

I see people on opposing sides using that as an excuse to not bother with the other viewpoint. I feel quite the opposite of that statement, but meet some conservatives who don't believe whatever FOX News tells them. I don't just insult opposing views Trump-style.

53

Make America Great Again Hats...would you wear one?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i like trump but i would be reticent wearing that hat.🤠.

OnTheWayOut

The media presents such misinformation on Trump it isn’t funny. What’s more pathetic is the sheeple who follow whatever the libs tell them to believe in!

Ha, Trump claims things and says them enough until (he hopes) some believe what he claims. (The inauguration crowd, the FBI investigation found nothing and will wrap up soon, stuff like that.)

Now you are doing it too.

22

Farewell Liberals - Doug Ford Wins in Ontario

by Simon in

the conservatives have won in ontario and the liberals who held power there for 15 years crashed so hard they didn't get enough seats to even retain official party status.

people are sick of them and the mess they make!.

hopefully this is the start of a wave across canada that will sweep the liberals from positions where they can do harm, ending with the king of the clowns, trudeau..

OnTheWayOut

I won't comment on your contempt for liberal Canadians because it is apparently different than U.S. liberalism.

But be sure you have it right, because our liberals don't outspend our conservatives. They each spend too much, but in different ways. The problem is not one of liberals vs. conservatives, it is a problem of politicians in general spending other people's money.

53

Make America Great Again Hats...would you wear one?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i like trump but i would be reticent wearing that hat.🤠.

OnTheWayOut

Minimus: I like Trump

I am a fair- minded person and I can even typically get along with those who like the not-so-fair-minded president. But I believe the underlying message behind "Make America Great Again" is nostalgia for a pre-Civil Rights time. So no hat for me. I like gay people, ethnic people, foreigners, and generally do not long for the time when they were more openly discriminated.

27

Is it clergy privilege?

by StarTrekAngel in

just wanted to pose the question to the group and see what the general opinion is vs what the wt may have claimed in other cases.. we all know that they have argued over clergy privilege when elder learn of a crime but keep quiet about it.

regardless of what one may feel about this, lets assume for a minute that they are correct.. all elders are directed to contact the branch when they learn of a case of child abuse.

would the conversation between the elder and the branch be considered under the "clergy privilege"?

OnTheWayOut

Being accused of a crime by a child, any answer to the elders made by the accused would not be privilege.

Spontaneously (and prior to accusations) fully confessing such a crime, once reporting to HQ, privilege is lost. You don't really believe they report and leave his name out, do you? Seeking guidance for an anonymous person- maybe it still fits the privilege definition, providing that Watchtower actually admits to having a clergy class like many other Christian denominations.

And, in my opinion, even a full confession loses the privilege status once the matter goes beyond just congregation elders in the investigation stage- approaching the child with their guardian.

Clergy privilege is meant for believers to come clean with God and basically add the clergy person to their 5th Amendment right (or similar right to avoid self-admitting a crime).

2

Much of the words Jesus really uttered might not have reached us

by Ireneus in

much of the words jesus really uttered might not have reached us and what has reached us could not have been originated from jesus.

for example, eagle-eyed jeremiah could declare that what was circulating during his time as ‘the law of jehovah in fact was falsehood or deception of the lying pen of scribes or of the dishonest scribes.’ (jeremiah 8:8, berean study bible; christian standard bible; good news translation).

jesus who had even sharper eyes than jeremiah and also anointed by holy spirit would even use sharper words to describe the invalidity of that law than jeremiah did.

OnTheWayOut

Trust me when I say that any and all words uttered by an alledged 'son-of-God' from heaven did indeed reach us.

But the other part of your statement, "what has reached us could not have been originated from Jesus" is very true at the same time.