i need help remembering a scripture.
i'm sucessfully turning the conversation to the point where her answer is going to have to be something along the lines of the light keeps getting brighter and brighter, because we're discussing the "generation" teaching changing multiple times and why that is, and i want to bring out a scripture something along the lines of "you will know they are false teachers because their prophecies often fail that the jw's use against other religions", but not only do i not know what bible book, chapter and verse it is, i can't remember the correct wording to search it.. this site has already been a great help, because i've gotten her to flip flop her stance on the blood doctrine (first she told me fractions weren't allowed, and when i showed her they were, then she changed her tune, which caught the attention of others in there.
i was able to get her to the point where she is flustered and waffling over the "generation" teaching, which i was able to do thanks to the wonderful chart outlining all the flip flops that had been posted here, so thank you on those, but since i can't remember the scripture, i can't use the search function, because i can't remember what i'm talking about, as i've been out 13+ years, and didn't even keep my bible.. if you know what i'm talking about, could you please help me figure out what i'm talking about?.
Howdy,
"At times explanations given by Jehovah's visible organization have shown adjustments, seemingly to previous points of view. But this has not actually been the case."
Explanations = doctrines
After 45 years in the WT I saw plenty of changes in doctrine. Previous points of view were returned to. Someone documented several flip-flops to the question of Sodom and Gommorah in the judgment.
God does not change his revelation to us does he?
Paul
has anyone avoided a jc and probable disfellowshipping by providing a medical certificate/note to the elders( from their doctor or mental health professional) along the lines that they are suffering from depression, could not endure a jc or investigation, and the risk of disfellowshipping and being shunned by their family could worsen their depression and put their mental health/physical health at risk?.
if i was an elder and got a letter/note along those lines i think i would be scared off from going through with the jc..
Here in Florida, statute 825.102 "ABUSE, NEGLECT, AND EXPLOITATION OF ELDERLY PERSONS AND DISABLED ADULTS" makes emotional abuse of an elderly or disabled person a Felony of the Third degree.
(1) "Abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult" means:
(a) Intentional infliction of physical or psychological injury upon an elderly person or disabled adult;
(b) An intentional act that could reasonably be expected to result in physical or psychological injury to an elderly person or disabled adult; or
(c) Active encouragement of any person to commit an act that results or could reasonably be expected to result in physical or psychological injury to an elderly person or disabled adult.
A person who knowingly or willfully abuses an elderly person or disabled adult without causing great bodily harm, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement to the elderly person or disabled adult commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
Depression is a qualifying mental disablility especially if it is caused by a depressive illness / bi-polar / schizo-affective disorder / or other chronic health condition (being mentally ill is a civil right - not a crime or a tort).
3rd degree felonies come with 5 year prison terms. That should wrap a few weeds around their propellors. Your state should have similar legislation. Copy FS 825.102 to them.
Paul
i'm not that good at quoting the bible.
i see no value in learning verses by heart, sorry.
however, i just learned that in the new world translation (the organization's bible), john 10:30, jesus is said to say "i and the father are one".
Hebrews says that no angel was ever called son. When Jesus said "I am in the Father and the Father is in me" the WT crooks wrote "I am 'in union' with the Father and the Father is 'in union' with me". Paul, on Mar's hill in Athens during his "The Unknown God" speech that we exist "in God"
"so that they might seek God, and perhaps they might reach out and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28 For in Him we live and move and exist" Acts 27:27,28 Holman CSB.
Jesus is called "God". "The virgin will conceive, have a son, and name him Immanuel ." (Isaiah 7:14 HCSB) "they will name Him Immanuel , which is translated "God is with us." (Matthew 1:23). "For a child will be born for us, a son will be given to us, and the government will be on His shoulders. He will be named Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6) "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with [THE] God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)
The WarTower didn't need to say Jesus was [a] god since they failed to see that in the Greek the Father is called "The God". That distinction is significant yet Jesus "will be named ... Mighty God." But not by the WT. Thus they fail to fulfill that prophecy and have let us ex-JWs in Christendom to be part of fulfilling that prophecy.
Good night,
Fuzzy
borg message incoming.
on screen.. borg: blizzard is irrelevant.
even though this is a judicial matter, it's really a shepherding call.
I can't stand the suspense. What Happened?
Fuzzy
facebook is a really weird phenomena....i found the jw who had originally lured me into the organization in 84...and his kids and his exwife on there.
i did not contact him.
it was so bizarre seeing his face again!
deja vu is when you feel that you have been in a place before that you have never been to or experienced something that you have never done. Used in doctrine of re-incarnation.
Sorry, but the term doesn't apply. There is lots perverts and sexual predators in the JWs. BEEN THERE, and seen enough of it. The higher ups are worse than the recruits. EXPERIENCED THAT, elders play favorites, who you are matters more than anything. Its a club.
Fuzzy
borg message incoming.
on screen.. borg: blizzard is irrelevant.
even though this is a judicial matter, it's really a shepherding call.
Christopher,
I PMed you. Pray, pray, pray. There are too few posts that talk the value and power of prayer. The elders are on your territory in your home. Act like it. The twosome is a front for a baited trap. They will draw you out, I wouldn't go there.
I sent a letter warning against trespass if they came here and verbally enforced it at the last loud mouthed elder visit. I also told the elder who knocked at my door to see if I still didn't want to be called on to "Leave now, not when you feel like it." He stood there writing on his territory card but I stepped outside and at a foots distance reinforced the order to leave NOW! He did. Stand like a man that is what you are.
I think the suicide, fratricide thoughts are usual but Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Some in the borg might even rejoice over your demise. I went through that and wouldn't give them the satisfaction of being destroyed by them. I am in a loving Church of Baptists. I am highly respected there. I AM LOVED. I am in a men's quartet. I go to Baptist men's prayer breakfasts and Baptist men's dinners where we plan projects. My son has a hundred + friends in youth. (He didn't have two in the KHall). The brand is not important, the WT lied about the value and import of brand name denominations. The ministerial staff's qualifications are more important and the discipleship courses they offer. I love my Sunday School group too, all of us wise old folks and old wise guys getting into The Word.
Anger is part of mourning your loss, you lost your happiness and identity and the love of your wife and whatever else, so, on Sunday morning go to CHURCH. Walk tall.
The Watchtower works very hard to convince their members that there is no other place to go. “Whom shall we go away to?” was spoken to a person, JESUS CHRIST. Jesus did not die to establish any organization. His spirit needs none. Jesus died to pay the penalty in FULL for sins. Salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone. Remember how many verses they excused themselves for changing to reinforce salvation by works. Most of John 3, 17:3 and the garbage of “faith without works is dead” is used to convince one that works save. Works do not produce faith, performing works is like acting, you will not become Hamlet no matter how long you play the part.
You will not get faith by doing works “of faith“. You lack faith, yes? Maybe you tried it their way and haven’t seen the fallacy of that. Jesus really did say, “For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.” Belief in what? That a great spirit became a man was murdered and resurrected and that is it - God’s provision for our salvation. That IS IT. The simplicity of it is what people don’t get. Is that too hard? Just believe and love him for the price being paid by him. So what if you can’t figure out why Jesus death saved you? Believing in what God says is why one is saved that way.
Trust. I know that he is looking in on you. I will pray for you and for you to have the presence of an angel there for you.
NO fear. It is forbidden. You are powerful. God is in you now. No weapon formed against you will succeed. Walk tall brother. Soon they will say "you are the man."
I backed my wife into a corner several times and then prayed her into church. She is baptized and that makes six of us out of the WT in 2 years and into Cornerstone Baptist Church. Watch Christian TV.com Watch TV preachers like Creflo Dollar, Perry Stone, Jeffrey Grant, David Jeremiah, Les Feldick who are honorable men. Listen to Moody radio for sermons every morning until noon here. Listen to Christian music. There is some very cool music on Christian Radio. Get a WOW CD at any Christian bookstore or Wal-Mart …. Really truly, DO NOT TRUST THE NEGATIVE TALK. There is a reason they bad mouth their competition. The greater the perceived enemy the greater the response. Ever see Frankenstein? The villagers got pitchforks, torches, whatever to attack that dude who just woke up dazed and confused. He was perceived a great threat.
Now, Imagine you are the Frankenstein man. He was misunderstood. Imagine his feelings, pitchforks in his face and all. I’d be enraged too. Get out all you peasants. I am royalty. A son of the King is a prince.
Love,
Paul
i have a family jw friend spending two nights a week at my place, because of school... last night we had a discussion regarding my fading and i should come back, talk.
we covered many topics.
but i need to get him on that the holy spirit is not only in the jw just because they preach allot.. can anyone help.
Isaiah 63 explains that the Holy Spirit is "the angel of God's presence."
7 I will make known the L ORD 's faithful love
[and] the L ORD 's praiseworthy acts,
because of all the L ORD has done for us—
even the many good things
[He has done] for the house of Israel
and has done for them based on His compassions
and the abundance of His faithful love.
8 He said, "They are indeed My people,
children who will not be disloyal,"
and He became their Savior.
9 In all their suffering, He suffered,
and the Angel of His Presence saved them.
He redeemed them
because of His love and compassion;
He lifted them up and carried them
all the days of the past.
10 But they rebelled,
and grieved His Holy Spirit. So He became their enemy
[and] fought against them.
11 Then He remembered the days of the past,
[the days] of Moses [and] his people.
Where is He who brought them up out of the sea
with the shepherds of His flock?
Where is He who put His Holy Spirit among the flock?
12 He sent His glorious arm
at Moses' right hand,
divided the waters before them
to obtain eternal fame for Himself,
13 and led them through the depths
like a horse in the wilderness,
so that they did not stumble.
14 Like cattle that go down into the valley,
the Spirit of the L ORD gave them rest.
You led Your people this way
to make a glorious name for Yourself.
Regards and blessings,
Paul
impossible!.
we notice, paul tells us that two things were handed down, to all mankind through the process of inheritance.
the reason being, if the soul was to be immortal, adam himself would have had to pass that on to mankind.
Josephus's Discourse to The Greeks Concerning Hades
by Flavius Josephus can be found online at sacred-texts and other locations.
Discourse to The Greeks Concerning Hades explains the beliefs regarding the Soul and Hades which the Jews of Jesus day had. If the Jewish beliefs contained therein were erroneous then Jesus would most definitely have corrected them, NOT used them in the story of The Rich Man In Hades. To not correct a "false teaching" would have been a gross negligence. Jesus had no qualms about challenging false doctrines.
Regards,
Paul
impossible!.
we notice, paul tells us that two things were handed down, to all mankind through the process of inheritance.
the reason being, if the soul was to be immortal, adam himself would have had to pass that on to mankind.
Sorry, my above post is goofy from "A time line is provided in Revelation 20. Here it is from The Holman Christian Standard Bible." to the comments on vs. 1-3. It seems that my copy and paste from the Holman CSB did not paste cleanly.
Here it is,
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years. 3 He threw him into the abyss, closed it, and put a seal on it so that he would no longer deceive the nations until the 1,000 years were completed. After that, he must be released for a short time.
4 Then I saw thrones, and people seated on them who were given authority to judge. [I] also [saw] the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of God's word, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and who had not accepted the mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with the Messiah for 1,000 years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over these, but they will be priests of God and the Messiah, and they will reign with Him for 1,000 years.
7 When the 1,000 years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the sea. 9 They came up over the surface of the earth and surrounded the encampment of the saints, the beloved city. Then fire came down from heaven and consumed them. 10 The Devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
11 Then I saw a great white throne and One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. 12 I also saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged according to their works by what was written in the books.
13 Then the sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead; all were judged according to their works. 14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
impossible!.
we notice, paul tells us that two things were handed down, to all mankind through the process of inheritance.
the reason being, if the soul was to be immortal, adam himself would have had to pass that on to mankind.
I wish to add that "soul", "spirit", and other terms related to this discussion do not have a clear one meaning use, single definition, concise English equivalent. They are used in a sloppy fashion. Look up these terms in Strongs analytical concordance. They have no single use as the Watchtower wants to make their simple minded case.
When the Hebrew scholars translated the Hebrew Scriptures into The Greek of their day they chose a term for Sheol from Greek mythology with all the baggage that that term had because it was a best fit. So, discovering what Hades meant 250 years or so before Christ to a Greek is necessary.
"gymnastic for the body, and music for the soul." - Plato
The body was not the soul and that idea was part of the baggage that the term "soul" had in the Greek.
Plato, who did not teach an immortal soul in the way the Watchtower claims repeatedly, said in The Republic,
Well; and has not the soul an end which nothing else can fulfill? for
example, to superintend and command and deliberate and the like. Are
not these functions proper to the soul, and can they rightly be assigned
to any other?
To no other.
And is not life to be reckoned among the ends of the soul?
Assuredly, he said.
And has not the soul an excellence also?
Yes.
And can she or can she not fulfill her own ends when deprived of that
excellence?
She cannot.
Then an evil soul must necessarily be an evil ruler and superintendent,
and the good soul a good ruler?
Yes, necessarily.
And we have admitted that justice is the excellence of the soul, and
injustice the defect of the soul?
That has been admitted.
Then the just soul and the just man will live well, and the unjust
man will live ill?
That is what your argument proves.
And he who lives well is blessed and happy, and he who lives ill the
reverse of happy?
Plato also wrote,
And what shall be their education? Can we find a better than the traditional
sort? --and this has two divisions, gymnastic for the body, and music for the soul.
True.
Shall we begin education with music, and go on to gymnastic afterwards?
By all means.
And when you speak of music, do you include literature or not?
I do.
- http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.mb.txt
The text can be downloaded and the FIND feature under your EDIT tab can be used to find the term "soul". A word is defined by its usage.
Regards,
Paul
