Posts by Dogpatch

In the case of Scientology it was pretty much necessary in order to begin the shutdown of David Miscavige. The REASON for anonymity (using masks) is that they take extreme measures of revenge on "apostates." It was Hubbard's motto!

"Fair game."

The Watchtower doesn't hire detectives and infiltrate the FBI and seek to control and overtake the economies of governments.

They do not put Bethelites in a hell hole for 10 days to dine on crumbs with rats and audit you with stupid $4000 e-meters which simply measure electrical resistance in your skin like a primitive lie detector. What a scam.

They do not order fellow members of the Governing Body to beat each other up in a closed room for over a week.

They do not drive a HEARSE around the house of a man's wife and children of a former local office manager for a week straight to intimidate them.

They do not publish letters like the one Scientology distrubuted the day after I left Australia in 1984 (part of which was to attend a cult conference led by the late Jan Groenveld), that said Randall Watters charges $10,000 a day to "deprogram" people. I didn't have any part in such a venture while there. I was hiking with my friends, visiting the World Expo, and having fun with my little group of 8 friends that went along with me. I did, however, tease the two Scientology "ethics officers" who attended the conference in their cute navy blue outfits and short dresses. I wanted to see if I could get them to crack a smile or laugh. No go on that one. LOL

I didn't make a dime there.

In contrast....

The WT does not call the airlines to cancel your plane tickets to prevent your escape from their offices.

I am not against wearing a mask to hide a person's identity when dealing with pathological extremists, but it's not my thing.

But I don't believe the Governing Body is quite so vicious now. Freddy and Knorr were, but they are rotting away in the dirt. The GB today are simply ignorant, arrogant pawns in a corporation that cares nothing about individuals.

But there are times when being anonymous is perhaps the best approach for some, as fanatics can be life-threatening. Look at the case of Salman Rushdie.

I would actually be delighted to go back to Bethel and act as a mediator to make things better, and not to create more hatred. I would put flowers in their hair and candy bars in their bookbags. I would distribute copies of "Yellow Submarine" on DVD to them for free. I would send them nice "get well" cards in the mail. But that is because no one in the WT ever hurt me in any way. (I'm lucky, obviously.)

People CAN change.

It's all in the way you deal with their primal nature (hi Terry!). :-))

Kindness and love will not let you down if you are sincere.

If the Governing Body decided to get rid of the top 50 men who cause the most trouble INSIDE the organization, that would be a memetic jump in social evolution.

I'm afraid they are far too gone for that. But it actually almost happened that way in the demise of Herbert W. Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God. Top leadership repented and went mainstream Christianity, while the power hungry other leaders with less noble motives split off into a dozen sects. That's what will happen with the WT, but perhaps without any true repentance on the part of ANY of the new sects. They are collectively arrogant and love it. "You Know" on this board was a perfect example of a pretend do-gooder who is still the same ugly soul as before, years ago. He just decided to recreate his sick image. Think "e-Watchman."

But why use their tricks of deception, violence, lying and hatred?

If so, they still control you.

This dog will not allow other men to ruin his life.

On the other hand, once you hurt me good, I become a wolverine. And I do not forgive or forget.

19

Secrets of Body Language - the most powerful way of understanding others

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

http://youtu.be/aqenwd-qlra.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqenwd-qlra.

[this is one of the most powerful lessons you can learn in understanding the real character, and honesty/dishonesty of people.

Dogpatch

Miles, read Combatting Cult Mind Control, it will save your life.

Randy

19

Secrets of Body Language - the most powerful way of understanding others

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

http://youtu.be/aqenwd-qlra.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqenwd-qlra.

[this is one of the most powerful lessons you can learn in understanding the real character, and honesty/dishonesty of people.

Dogpatch

Terry (where's my blog, bud?) sez,

What feedback have you had from--let's call them: deprogrammed people--as to what helped them most become less subjective and more objective, Randy?

Is it more a long, slow, cumulative process always? Or, are there cues that something particular can cause a more short-term realization?

Deprogramming is forceable abduction. It is no longer practiced in the U.S. partly due to Steven Hassan's first book. (Not to mention being illegal to constrain someone like that.) Steve had a new approach, because HE resented being deprogrammed and the lasting damage it can cause. That's why he was on all the talk shows. It's more like regular counseling... they can leave at any time. You have to rely solely on your ability to make friends with them in the first 15 minutes, even though they first are afraid your the devil. Do not do something that will cause permanent resistance. Bring select members of their family and friends, and the embarrassment of walking out like a jilted prom girl in front of all your friends because you're a stupid mindless jerk is a bit much, so they stay a while, if at least to prove they are "open-minded).
So you can play their ego.

Subjectivity for the most part is a result of "inner demons" (or mental issues) and fears. Remove the guilt and fear, and ex-cultists are often way more intelligent than the average person. They have had their minds stretched, washed and dry-cleaned. NO ANGER is left. Humor and normal sexuality blossom for some for the first time in their life. I was a virgin for 39 years (technically, I had several long-term girlfriends from 14 on) and wouldn't even "jerk off" for 8 years as a JW (thank you brother Knorr). But I did fall in love with Judy Martin, one of the 7 single young girls at Bethel then who I was assigned to sit next to. Beautiful girl, but she would never leave. Plus I don't know if she even really like me - (JWs don't know themselves enough to display normal emotions often). But I was ready to propose... then the Franz thing hit the fan and blew that idea.

I wanted to stay! The day before I left I was appointed assistant pressroom overseer, in second charge of all 4 rotary press floors. I didn't want it and had a premonition I waasn't going to go back after my vacation the next day. I called Dan Sydlik and gave him a sob story and he sent a letter of recommendation to my new congregation.

Being in a total mind control cult was the only 100% remedy to my problems. As long as you believe it 100%. :-))

If you know what you're doing, it is quick, painless and fun (after their trashing me emotionally for the first day). No bullshit they can come up with intellectually can stump me. It's simple anthropology. I recommend reading Straw Dogs as a second book after Releasing or Steve's new book (assuming it's good, which I'm sure it is). If anyone wants to read it and do a book review for freeminds, I would love it. I never have time to read anymore... just trying to stay alive most of the time. PRIMAL issues, mostly physical pain. (I never get sick - all my family lives to 80 or more - God forbid... I'll do a Hunter S. Thompson)

(Are you listening Grace? We can launch you from a cannon all the way across Ontario out of the French curtain for your final coup de gras.)

Besides, I'm turning 80 in a week. I don't need the emotional rollercoaster any more.

19

Secrets of Body Language - the most powerful way of understanding others

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

http://youtu.be/aqenwd-qlra.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqenwd-qlra.

[this is one of the most powerful lessons you can learn in understanding the real character, and honesty/dishonesty of people.

Dogpatch

Well, Our special seminar for 2 days with Steven Hassan teaching back in the late 80s-early 80s is probably the best. It is still timeless, as what is discussed with the audience of former Scientologists, former Elizabeth Claire Prophet members, MLM groups, and a couple of Christian sects/cults is eternally applicable and priceless. The importance of doctrine and educating people about what Christianity is and is not is only discussed by me on the final day (none of the other speakers were Christians that I remember), because Christians always seem to approach it from doctrine rather than a PRIMAL approach. But 95% are not in it for doctrinal reasons at all, and so his approach is more the same as mine. He taught me a lot of shortcuts and memetic leaps to recovery - plus he has the advantage of extensive training in psychology, knows Robert J. Lifton, Philip Zimbardo, and knew many other like the late Margaret Singer (wonderful, powerful, caring woman, and once was one of my subscribers for years). He has been on every imaginable talk show including Oprah and others over the years more than once. Go visit his site at www.freedomofmind.com.

Steven doesn't actually come at it from my angle outright, so it seems a little contradictory since he doesn't really get into "primal" as a main subject. (I haven't read his new book yet, though.) But he nevertheless uses it as his approach rather than psychology, philosophy or doctrine. He is wonderfully disarming. A little self-deprecation and a wonderful smile and a good sense of humor are his REAL tools. He doesn't even need to know what the group believes, nor do I, other than a short prep. What is going on in the family is far more important and has NOTHING to do with beliefs, which generally spring forth out of primal issues anyway. But he is well-educated in all the professional counseling issues, plus he is very intelligent (more than an Okie like me).

Steve did not suffer my misery as a child, but in actuality we are on the same page... Steve in person is a real people person - he does not act like a professor, has a sense of humor, is humble, and clearly loves people and has a great deal of empathy. But he has been through a lot, too... with the Moonies and the horrible loss of his first wife in a most awful accident. But that was after he got out of the Moonies.

I first met him in Berkeley at a conference on "Satanism, Deception and Discernment," where a exceptionally good Christian magician by the name of Danny Korem literally showed the crowd how simple it is to deceive others, using their own pre-existing mental issues. Mind boggling, I still have Korem's series of cassettes on the subject.

I do not do it for a couple of reasons, not the least is like the end of the Excorcist where the "demon" leaves the victim and enters the priest, who out of the feeling of sheer wretchedness leaps to his death. My empathy, which cannot be controlled at times, not only was effective but I felt all of what the person suffered PLUS their literal hatred of me on the first day, does a number on my head (I had a very tranquil family life and then I get immersed into what others have horrifically been through - it is just too much for me - I'm a mess for 2-3 days before finally exorcising the "demon" from me.) And no, I don't believe in demons, but one of my favorite subjects since early childhood is magic, Satanism/good and evil. I love horror and have read the Satanic Bible twice (though it's not about the devil at all.) Not into slasher crap. I like Ambrose Bierce.

A second-best is my series of lectures and audience participation available HERE. About three of the lectures/audience are on my Youtube channel in their entirety at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKtxAL0zQY4&list=PLD81F8A29D27EB2F9&feature=plcp

I do some private one-on-one counseling though. Just too draining on me.

Terry: No, the process may only take 3 days and they are totally FREE, but then need to clean up the mess in their mind, and that's where doctrine, etc. come into play. They end up very happy and I am miserable for awhile. It really works like a charm and is permanent. That's why I am amazed how sdo many of you suffer for years after leaving when it is so quick and easy to be free using the proper approach.

More later, got a errand to do.

Randy

http://www.freeminds-store.com/dvd/recovery-from-the-watchtower-video-series-full-set-of-7-dvds.html

18

ICSA Pre-Conference Day - Coming to Terms with Your Story: Writing to Heal

by Lady Lee in

icsa pre-conference day.

montreal canada.

july 4-12 2012. .

Dogpatch

Lee said,

I badly needed to believe there was a God who might help me

That was the #1 reason I joined - God HAD to be there! (or I would go nuts). I actually told myself that before I quit smoking, cut my long hippie hair, and turned into a whole different person. I couldn't really PROVE ANYTHING.

Before the JWs I was almost autistic by comparison.

Randy

18

ICSA Pre-Conference Day - Coming to Terms with Your Story: Writing to Heal

by Lady Lee in

icsa pre-conference day.

montreal canada.

july 4-12 2012. .

Dogpatch

Great comments, Lee!

I first began going to these conferences (CAN - Cult Awareness Network) in 1984 in Berkeley, Santa Barbara, and other places. They give you infinitely more wisdom than hanging in a forum like this where all are very similar. Like being in a small town and never seeing the Big City. I, too, was the only ex-JW at any of them.

Big Tex,

I thought I joined the JWs for idealistic reasons myself for many years, even after I left. I was a TRUE BELIEVER (Eric Hoffer). But later becoming an exit-counselor I saw my own primal needs being met by the JWs in the same exact way that most of the others did.

If you are merely idealistic, you don't need to join a group of people... you can just read and believe. But you have to actually JOIN and become part of the cult's SUPER-EGO before you get the real PRIMAL satisfaction it secretly provides. You have to FEEL it!

I didn't realize that for many years - it took me watching many others do the same thing in many different groups to finally "get it."

Just my two cents. :-))

Randy

19

Secrets of Body Language - the most powerful way of understanding others

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

http://youtu.be/aqenwd-qlra.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqenwd-qlra.

[this is one of the most powerful lessons you can learn in understanding the real character, and honesty/dishonesty of people.

Dogpatch

BTW I edited this a bit and put it up at:

http://www.freeminds.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3326:secrets-of-body-language&catid=8:randys-blog&Itemid=571

Randy

freeminds.org

19

Secrets of Body Language - the most powerful way of understanding others

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

http://youtu.be/aqenwd-qlra.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqenwd-qlra.

[this is one of the most powerful lessons you can learn in understanding the real character, and honesty/dishonesty of people.

Dogpatch

http://youtu.be/AQENwD-QlRA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQENwD-QlRA

[This is one of the most powerful lessons you can learn in understanding the REAL character, and honesty/dishonesty of people. But it has to be visual and in person to fully work. That's why people hiding on the Net under false pictures and icons cannot really be trusted. I have always guessed it as listening at 20% effective and watching/using your senses as 80% of understanding others. When people want to argue about invisible things, they are almost always operating under self-delusion.] - Randy

Body language is a form of non-verbal communication, which consists of body posture, gestures, facial expressions, and eye movements. Humans send and interpret such signals almost entirely subconsciously.

John Borg attests that human communication consists of 93 percent body language and paralinguistic cues, while only 7% of communication consists of words themselves;[1] however, Albert Mehrabian, the researcher whose 1960s work is the source of these statistics, has stated that this is a misunderstanding of the findings[2] (see Misinterpretation of Mehrabian's rule). Others assert that "Research has suggested that between 60 and 70 percent of all meaning is derived from nonverbal behavior."[3]

Body language may provide clues as to the attitude or state of mind of a person. For example, it may indicate aggression, attentiveness, boredom, relaxed state, pleasure, amusement, and intoxication, among many other cues.

This is also known as profiling in the legal system, the best way to catch a crook. Yet animals and even bugs have used these visual matrices to protect themselves for millions of years. If you want to get a person out of a cult, or even become an exit-counselor, and you don't understand this (it's largely instinctive more so than learned by a book), you will have little success. In 30 years of exit-counseling, this has been my most effective tool. Arguing theology and concepts and philosophy is virtually worthless in comparison, yet 95% of all books on cults miss the boat entirely. Why? Because the writers, though sounding very bright and intelligent, have no real experience in getting a person out of a cult. Throw their books away and get your hands dirty in the REAL world.

You can discuss abstracts SUCH AS INVISIBLE SKY-DADDIES AND SUPER-DADDIES WHEN THEY'RE OUT.

It is also my observation that when a friend or family member wants to hire someone to get a person out of a cult, THEY are the one who needs the MOST counseling, as their primal control mechanisms often drove the "victim" into the cult in the first place! What irony, but I would guess it to be true in 80% of the cases I have worked in. [I don't do it anymore.]

In the actual exit-counseling session, THAT person is the one you leave out of the picture until later... as the "victim" will get very defensive and clam up. Often women join cults to get a life that gives them more freedom and self-respect [in a cult!] than they get from their mate. Same with children - in an effort to escape their over-controlling and often religiously fanatical parents.

My favorite tactic is to take the side of the "victim" and they suddenly relate to me more than their family or friends! Why? Because they sense (not actually yet understanding it) I understand why they joined in the first place, while even they often didn't realize such a mind-boggling truth. But I have to warn the family I am going to do that in advance, or they will wonder what the hell I'm doing!

I know because I was raised a Baptist and I hated church (not God or the concept of God) and it was a way of getting back at the hypocrites that play invisible games. (LOL later I became a Foursquare pastor for several years after leaving the JWs because I now understood the whole thing.)

The world is not always what you think you are seeing... your mind and agenda gets in the way, and you yourself may be the very one that drove them into a cult. [Obviously this does not apply to born-ins.]

2

(Repost) According to David Splaine, under no CIRCUMCISIONS would we accept blood.

by ranmac in

in my morning haze/haste, i totally effed up my post title.

with regard to fans of gb hero, david splaine, i thought id repost it for anyone who might of missed it due to my sloth-like morning fingers.

i got a few awesome responses.

Dogpatch

So is his stupid untrue doctrinal statement, JWs accept blood all the time.

http://www.ajwrb.org

Randy