DocBob

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Posts by DocBob

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  5

  NORTH OF BOSTON,MASS

  by aquagirl in

  1. social
  2. family

  ok..im willing to put together an apostafest in the midcoast area if enough folks are interested...im about 4 hours north of boston...1 hour south of bangor,me..major airport there,also in portland,me,1 and a half hours south of here, from here..im willing to help arrange pickup at airports too..{in the summer i drive a lil' snappy red convertible.

  ]..whatch'all think?

  anyone interested?collaborate w/anyone?

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  DocBob

  Sounds good to me. If it's a nice summer day my wife and I will show up on two wheels each.
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  34

  Independent Thinking

  by Jeffro in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i decided to do a search of the watchtower library cd on the phrase 'independent thinking'.

  only three times is it ever spoken of as being a good thing.

  and those three instances are quite telling about the insidiousness of all of the other times that jw publications consider independent thinking to be such a bad thing.. .

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  DocBob

  The following is from my website. My webhosting software doesn't allow easly linking, so here's the whole thing:

  The phrase "Avoid Independent Thinking" appears as a subheading in the 1/15/1983 issue of "The Watchtower." For many years, the Watchtower has warned Jehovah's Witnesses of the dangers of "independent thinking." This article will explore the Watchtower's present view of independent thinking and how that view has changed over the years.

  
  

  The Watchtower has not always used the phrase "independent thinking" in a negative context. In the 8/1/1957 Watchtower, they were promoting independent thinking and criticizing those who were afraid to be alone with their own thoughts.
  

  7 Though not sought by crowds as Jesus was, his followers today are hard-pressed by modern living to find solitude for meditation. In many places in the world simplicity of living has been replaced by a life of complexity, with waking hours crammed with both important and trivial matters. Moreover, people today are developing an aversion to thinking. They fear being alone with their own thoughts. If other people are not around, they fill the void with television, movies, light reading matter, or if they go to the beach or park the portable radio goes too so they will not have to be with their own thoughts. Their thinking must be channeled for them, ready-made by propagandists. This suits Satan's purpose. He deluges the mass mind with anything and everything but God's truth. To keep minds from doing godly thinking Satan keeps them busy with thoughts that are either trivial or ungodly. It is tailor-made thinking, and the tailor of it is the Devil. Minds work, but in the way that a horse is led. Independent thinking is difficult, unpopular and even suspect. Thought conformity is the order of our day. To seek solitude for meditation is frowned upon as antisocial and neurotic.-Rev. 16:13, 14. - The Watchtower, 8/1/1957, page 469, para 7, "Will You Get to Live on Earth Forever?"

  In the 1958 Watchtower, they talk about how the Irish do little independent thinking because of the influence of the Church.
  

  Fear has a great hold on the people. People are afraid of what their neighbors, their friends, relatives and clergy might think if they were even so much as to read the Bible on their own. For centuries the clergy have dominated their lives, told them what they can read, what they should believe and do. To ask a sound religious question is a demonstration of lack of faith in God and the church, according to the clergy. As a result, the Irish people do very little independent thinking. They are victims of the clergy and fear; but freedom is in sight. - The Watchtower, 8/1/1958, page 460

  While the 1957 Watchtower talked about how the world filled people's minds with Satan's tailor made thinking in order to keep them from independent thinking, just three years later the Watchtower says the following:

  Today the trend of this world is to seek independent thinking as the ideal goal, but even as the unrealistic thinking of a scientist who tries to ignore the law of gravity is doomed to failure, so also is the unrealistic thinking of those who try to ignore the fact of man's dependence on God. ."It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his steps." (Jer 10:23; Prov. 16:1-3) When men try to think independently of God, they set aside the perfect standard of goodness, righteousness, virtue and faithfulness and become victims of their own selfish, sinful inclinations and degrade their own thinking ability.-Rom. 1:21-32; Eph. 4:17-19. - The Watchtower, 2/15/1960, page 106-7, para 5, "Safeguard Your Thinking Ability"

  My, how the world changed in 3 short years.

  Now in the context in which the WT uses the term more recently. It would be nice if the WT did use the term to describe thinking indepent of Jehovah, but that is not really the case.

  It seems that some in association with the early Corinthian congregation were disregarding Paul's authority, looking at him according to what he appeared to be in the flesh, and neglecting to take into account his special commission from Christ. Today, too, there are those who, by their independent thinking, question Christ's ability to have and use on the earth a specially appointed governing body of imperfect humans, to whom he has entrusted all the Kingdom interests or "belongings" on earth. (Matt. 24:45-47) When such independent thinkers receive counsel and direction based on the Bible, they incline to the thought, 'This is only from fleshly men, so it is up to me to decide whether to accept it or not.' - The Watchtower, 6/1/1966, page 324, "Intellectual Freedom or Captivity to the Christ?"

  So they are saying that independent thinkers question, not the organization itself, but "Christ's ability to have and use on the earth a specially appointed governing body of imperfect humans,". I certainly do not question Christ's abilities in this area, only that the Watchtower Society is an expression of those abilities.

  In the 1/15/1983 Watchtower, there were two articles that dealt with indepenent thinking. In the first, under the subheading "Avoid Independent Thinking", the Watchtower said:

  How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization. For example, God's organization has from time to time given warnings about listening to certain types of immoral and suggestive music, and about frequenting discos and other types of worldly dance halls where such music is played and people are known to engage in immoral conduct. (1 Corinthians 15:33) Yet certain ones have professed to know better. They have rebelled against such counsel and have done what is right in their own eyes. With what result? Very often they have become involved in sexual immorality and have suffered severe spiritual harm. But even if they have not been so affected, are they not reprehensible if others follow their example and suffer bad consequences?-Matthew 18:6. - The Watchtower, 1/15/1983, page 22, para 21, "Exposing the Devil's Subtle Designs"

  So rather than questioning God's Word, the Watchtower says that independent thinkers question "the counsel that is provided by God's visibile organization."

  19 As we study the Bible we learn that Jehovah has always guided his servants in an organized way. And just as in the first century there was only one true Christian organization, so today Jehovah is using only one organization. (Ephesians 4:4, 5; Matthew 24:45-47) Yet there are some who point out that the organization has had to make adjustments before, and so they argue: "This shows that we have to make up our own mind on what to believe." This is independent thinking. Why is it so dangerous? 20 Such thinking is an evidence of pride. And the Bible says: "Pride is before a crash, and a haughty spirit before stumbling." (Proverbs 16:18) If we get to thinking that we know better than the organization, we should ask ourselves: "Where did we learn Bible truth in the first place? Would we know the way of the truth if it had not been for guidance from the organization? Really, can we get along without the direction of God's organization?" No, we cannot! -Compare Acts 15:2, 28, 29; 16:4, 5. - The Watchtower, 1/15/1983, page 27, "Armed for the Fight Against Wicked Spirits"

  Again, independent thinkers are cast, not as questioning God Himself, but thinking they know better than the organization.

  In the world, there is a tendency to reject leadership. As one lecturer said: "The rising education level has improved the talent pool such that followers have become so critical that they are almost impossible to lead." But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God's organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men taking the lead among us. For instance, only those meeting Scriptural requirements are appointed as elders. (1 Timothy 3:1-7) They are trained to be kind, loving, and helpful, yet firm in upholding Jehovah's righteous standards. The elders adhere to Scriptural truth, 'holding firmly to the faithful word, that they may be able to exhort by healthful teaching.' (Titus 1:5-9) Of course, we should not magnify their human imperfections, for all of us are imperfect. (1 Kings 8:46; Romans 5:12) Instead of feeling frustrated by their limitations and treating their counsel lightly, let us appreciate and accept the Bible-based direction of the elders as coming from God. - The Watchtower, 9/15/1989, Page 23, para 13, "Be Obedient to Those Taking the Lead"

  So the WT characterization has changed drastically since 1957. And most recently, it has not been geared toward thinking independent of God, but independent of the WT organization.
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  73

  Why do apostates lie about where they get their information?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it does no good.

  i don't understant it - who do they think they're foolin'?.

  i have just been listening to the judicual committee that disfellowshipped rick and laverne townsend and it is cringeworthy, to say the least, to listen to them cover-up, distort and outright lie about the sources of their information and the real background to their dissent.

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  DocBob

  Why is it Jehovah`s Witness`s will tell you about all thier hard earned research,when they are simply repeating WBT$ bullsh*t..Don`t they know thier not fooling anyone but themselves?...OUTLAW

  JWs tell you they came to their conclusions based on their own research because that is what the Society has told them to do:

  Here is the quote from the 3/15/98 WT, page 19, para 4. After discussing the difference between the WTS and the "faithful slave," the article says:

  "In order to avoid misunderstandings, Jehovah's Witnesses try to be careful about how they express themselves. Instead of saying 'the Society teaches,' many Witnesses prefer to use such expressions as, 'the Bible says,' or, 'I understand the Bible to teach.' In this way they emphasize the personal decision that each Witness has made in accepting Bible teachings and also avoid giving the false impression that Witnesses are somehow bound to the dictates of some religious sect. "

  So JWs don't say "the Society says ..." because the Society says not to say "the Society says ..." ;-)
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  30

  Does the Society monitor and read this site

  by avidbiblereader in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does the society monitor this site in hopes of finding witnesses crossing the line?

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  DocBob

  Yes, there is a secret community that watches this site like a hawk and reports to all congregations in an e-mail, that are mentioned, activity that is directly related to their area. If you mention Oregon for example, all Oregon congregations will get a copy of this message. If you mention the United States, it is a real pain, as they have to send a copy to all United States congregations and even territories of the United States.

  Well in that case please let my old friends in the Portsmouth NH and Kittery ME congregations that I am here for them any time they want to talk. (Seriously) Same house, same phone number as when I was still in.

  Bob
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  68

  Is your avatar you?

  by Swamboozled in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i always assume that people with real pics for their avatars are pics of that poster.

  obviously that's not always the case.

  i'm curious about whose pic is really them.

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  DocBob

  Yup
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  10

  who is paid cleargy in WTS?

  by ukescott in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mormons claim that they don't have paid cleargy.

  it is true if they are taking about local churches.. but they have so many paid leaders in their organization: the general authorities made up of the first presidency, the twelve apostles, and the seventies, and seminary institute teachers, branch office administrators and staffs in each country, and etc.. what about the wts?

  who are the "paid cleargy"?

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  DocBob

  I always wonder how much gets reported to the IRS.

  None of it. Taking a page from the hated "Christendom", the leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses set up the " Order of Special Full-Time Servants". Travelling overseers and Bethel family members are members of this order. As such, they have taken a "Simple Vow of Poverty", which exempts them from taxation.

  For an interesting view of the benefits of being a member of the "Order", see http://www.ojd.state.or.us/tax/taxdocs.nsf/($All)/C21C9F93FCB674CF88257118007914FB/$File/JehovahsWitnesses4708Opinion.pdf
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  66

  "Let the woman keep silent"

  by belbab in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  lately on jwd there have been a number of posts regarding the state of woman in the jw organization.

  one lady asks sisters for their thoughts and comments on male dominance over their lives.

  i am not a sister but for quite a few years this subject has been on my mind, but i never spoke my thoughts, always waiting for someone else to come up with a clearer explanation of bible texts that seem to indicate that christian woman should keep their mouths shut.. where to start?

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  DocBob

  Ever hear of a woman hero in the bible?

  Rahab - saved the spies' bacon in Jericho

  Deborah - Israel's woman judge

  Jael - pinned Sisera to the ground

  Esther - saved the whole nation of Israel from genocide

  Abigail - saved her husband Nabal and his men from being wiped out by David.
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  48

  Does Anyone Really Believe They Can Knock Out The Watchtower???

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think it will be around for years to come.

  i do think that we can put the word out about this cult and help people get out or not join them in the first place.

  but we'll never obliterate them, in my opinion.

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  DocBob

  Not by myself. But if each one of us removes just one brick from the Tower, it will eventually fall.
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  144

  Get A Load Of This Anti Watchtower Site!

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a preview of what's coming in january is on this link, it sounds scary to me!!!!

  .

  http://www.sixscreensofthewatchtower.com/.

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  DocBob

  Nope, it's not me, but I know who it is. They live about an hour from me.
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  15

  Catalogue of WBTS actual lies; please help!!!!

  by yesidid in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a link given by someone on the board .

  (whom i cant find but would like to thank) .

  opened an article by leonard r. miller .

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  DocBob

  Here's one - In the 8/15/1993 Watchtower, page 9, in the article " Why You Need to Attend Christian Meetings", the Watchtower made the following statement:

  " Jehovah's Witnesses have consistently shown from the Scriptures that the year 1914 marked the beginning of this world's time of the end and that "the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men" has drawn near."

  An examination of older Watchtower publications shows that Jehovah's Witnesses (or Bible Students as they were previously known) did have NOT "consistently shown from the Scriptures that the year 1914 marked the beginning of this world's time of the end..." Rather, the Watchtower pointed to another date for the beginning of the "time of the end."

  In the "Finished Mystery" book, on page 239, the WTS says:

  "This is without question a fulfilment of the prophecy testifying to the "time of the end." These physical facts can not be disputed and are sufficient to convince any reasonable mind that we have been in the "time of the end" since 1799."

  Also, from the March 1, 1922 Watch Tower:

  " The indisputable facts, therefore, show that the "time of the end" began in 1799; that the Lord's second presence began in 1874."

  The book "Creation," published by the WTS in 1927 has a very detailed explanation as to why they felt 1799 was the beginning of the time of the end. Here are a few quotes.

  Creation

  , page 293:

  "Napoleon began this Egyptian campaign in 1798, finished it, and then returned t.o France on October 1, 1799. The campaign is briefly, yet graphically, described in the prophecy, verses 40-44; and its being completed in 1799 marks, according to the prophet’s own words, the beginning of "the time of the end".

  Creation,

  page 294

  "Twelve hundred and sixty years from 539 A. D. brings us to 1799, which is another proof that 1799 definitely marks the beginning of "the time of the end ".

  Creation

  , page 295

  From shortly after 1799, the date of the beginning of "the time of the end", we should expect to find an increase of knowledge, particularly with reference to the Bible.

  Going back just a few years to 1921, in the book "The Harp of God" says on page 236:

  "The time of the end" embraces a period from 1799 A.D., as above indicated, to the time of the complete overthrow of Satan's empire and the establishment of the kingdom of the Messiah. The time of the Lord's second presence dates from 1874, as above stated. The latter period is within the first named, of course, and in the latter part of the period known as "the time of the end."

  I can't believe that anyone who was writing for the Watchtower on 1993 was ignorant of the previous teaching.