Posts by digderidoo

but, did you know, that according to the watchtower, that if you, even so much as commit fornication (play with their genitals) with your spouse again before the divorce is finalized that you have thus symbolized that you have forgiven them and that you no longer have scriptural grounds to divorce them?

digderidoo

Yep that is correct. Not that i would want to have my genitals played with by my ex wife anyway, uurrrggghh.

Paul

59

My first post

by BonaFide in

jw
friends

i prayed before i came on here.

i know that it weird.

i have been reading here for a long time.

digderidoo

Welcome bonafide.

You have done the right thing by praying about it. You've already noticed descrepencies within the WT literature, its worth researching other stuff for yourself to find out whether its the truth. Only you can answer that for yourself.

The WT will tell you it's the truth, stuff you find out will tell you it isn't. Its a decision you need to come to yourself. I can tell you one thing though you already hold a doubt, you will learn more stuff by sticking around. If you decide its the truth, you can never go back to the meetings and sit there without these doubts you have lurking in your mind. It will never be the same again.

What you will learn here is the truth about the truth, if that makes sense. Its worth sticking around, we have all been where you are now.

Paul

12

I feel de-programmed

by digderidoo in

jw
friends

i have posted my thread regarding that i went back to a few meetings.

within that the debate came up about 607 v 587.. for me i have seen many criticisms against the wt society that i agree with.

but i have never been able to find conclusive or 100% proof that doctrines or beliefs are wrong.

digderidoo

Suddenly it all harmoni[z]ed to me.
Congratulations. Most all of us had that Eureka moment sometime ago.
It becomes like a flood if you go back and reexamine what you thought you
understood, but with the WT glasses off.

Thanks OTWO for the lesson in American English. However in the Queens English, spoken by the English its "harmoni[s]ed". Rule Brittania

Thanks for the reply too, that was good.

Paul

103

Jeremiah and the 70 years. Jewish exile or Babylonian rule?

by digderidoo in

i have never until a few days ago been able to reconcile the 70 year prophecy with the 587/6 bce date for jerusalems destruction.

although a post was about this in a previous thread by a@g , i would like to explore this more.. when the 70 years are applied to babylonian rule, rather than the jewish exile everything seems to make sense.. to ellaborate for those who haven't come across it, this is how 587/6 does match the 70 year prophecy.. i hope a@g doesn't mind but i have cut and paste his post:-.

the 587 date does match the bible.... (jeremiah 25:11) 11 and all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of babylon seventy years.".

digderidoo

It is imposible to reconcile 586/587 BCE with the biblical 'seventy years because the only date that works is 607 BCE for the Fall of Jerusalem. Scholars have for many decades tried to harmonize the data but without any success.

It would appear to me that the data has been harmonised with success.

Apostates such as Carl Jonsson attempted a similar effort in his Gentile Times Reconsidered but failed misereably. It seems that A@G did not pay attention to this subjects whilst at Gilead because he too has simply repeated old and empty arguments.

I find that using the argument that people are apostates or repeating old and emtpy arguments is an empty argument itself.

Celebrated WT scholars over the last three centuries proved beyond doubt that the seventy years was a period of exile. desolation and serviude running from the Fall in 607 BCE until the Return in 537 BCE as also attested by all of the OT and Josephus.

They haven't "proved beyond doubt", this is my point. It seems to me that WT scholars start with the presupposed conclusion that 607 is the date then look for the evidence to support it. Credible research should look for the evidence first, then draw the conclusion, rather than the other way around.

The theory that A@G and Jonsson proposes that the seventy years was a period of Babylonian domination is simply false and cannot be sustained from scripture for no single scripture or those collected texts can in any way support this singular proposal. All of the 'seventy-year' texts agree that that period was of exile-desolation and servitude. The seventy years did not belong to Babylon but to Judah alone with Babylon being simply the means by which matters were fulfilled as Jeremiah prophesied.

Jeremiah 25:11 speaks of "these nations", not one nation. How would you answer that?

Paul

103

Jeremiah and the 70 years. Jewish exile or Babylonian rule?

by digderidoo in

i have never until a few days ago been able to reconcile the 70 year prophecy with the 587/6 bce date for jerusalems destruction.

although a post was about this in a previous thread by a@g , i would like to explore this more.. when the 70 years are applied to babylonian rule, rather than the jewish exile everything seems to make sense.. to ellaborate for those who haven't come across it, this is how 587/6 does match the 70 year prophecy.. i hope a@g doesn't mind but i have cut and paste his post:-.

the 587 date does match the bible.... (jeremiah 25:11) 11 and all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of babylon seventy years.".

digderidoo

I don't really understand why the 607 thing is so important to people. I could understand it if it all hinged on this one thing ; that everything else was perfect and this was the only discrepancy in JW doctrine, but it's not. JWs (and their still existing forerunners, and perhaps some offshoots) are the only groups even concerned with this; all others accept the 586/7 date.

Does 607 really matter in determining if it's Truth?

Awakened 07,

All i can say is that it does for me. When i was a JW i used to love explaining the 1914 prophecy and showing how the maths worked out. It was one of those things i used to use to "prove" to other people that this is the "truth". I was a few years out when i came across this descrepency, for me it was always the one thing that stopped me going to a meeting all those years. I have always been a person that can look at both sides of an argument, unless there is a 100% reasoning leaning on one side.

Because i have always felt this way, although i may not agree with WT explanations of other criticisms, i have always seen their point of view. The 607 v 587/6 debate for me if it can be proved one way or the other IS the defining thing that will either keep me away or make me go to a meeting.

Paul

10

One thing that I can do.................................

by Warlock in

jw
friends

post-jehovah's witnesses, these are some of my conclusions on life:.

1. i cannot do anything to stop the sun from rising tomorrow, no matter how hard i try (i know, i know, the sun doesn't really rise.

2. i cannot do anything about whether there is an afterlife or not.. 3. i cannot do anything to stop my physical death.. 4. i can see what has happened, but cannot predict what will happen.. warlock .

digderidoo

I can juggle....

Paul

103

Jeremiah and the 70 years. Jewish exile or Babylonian rule?

by digderidoo in

i have never until a few days ago been able to reconcile the 70 year prophecy with the 587/6 bce date for jerusalems destruction.

although a post was about this in a previous thread by a@g , i would like to explore this more.. when the 70 years are applied to babylonian rule, rather than the jewish exile everything seems to make sense.. to ellaborate for those who haven't come across it, this is how 587/6 does match the 70 year prophecy.. i hope a@g doesn't mind but i have cut and paste his post:-.

the 587 date does match the bible.... (jeremiah 25:11) 11 and all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of babylon seventy years.".

digderidoo

Nakissos,

I have read that the rebuilding of the temple of Jerusalem was completed in 516 BCE. This would fit in with your reasoning, this would also fit in with 70 years from 587/6 to 516. But this would not fit in with Jer 25:11 when it says "these nations will have to serve the King of Babylon seventy years."

I can see your reasoning along the line that it did not end with the return of exile. But for me, the Babylonian defeat of the Assyrians, along with taking captives prior to the fall of Jerusalem is the only way i can see the 70 years prophecy harmonising all these scriptures.

Paul

103

Jeremiah and the 70 years. Jewish exile or Babylonian rule?

by digderidoo in

i have never until a few days ago been able to reconcile the 70 year prophecy with the 587/6 bce date for jerusalems destruction.

although a post was about this in a previous thread by a@g , i would like to explore this more.. when the 70 years are applied to babylonian rule, rather than the jewish exile everything seems to make sense.. to ellaborate for those who haven't come across it, this is how 587/6 does match the 70 year prophecy.. i hope a@g doesn't mind but i have cut and paste his post:-.

the 587 date does match the bible.... (jeremiah 25:11) 11 and all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of babylon seventy years.".

digderidoo

Mary, check the link http://www.science.co.il/Maps-Near-East-Empires.asp

Clearly showing the Babylon empire, covering Israel. Jerusalem fell in 587/6, but other links such as those posted by RR show how Jews we're being governed prior to the destruction of Jerusalem.

I myself am learning as i go along with this one. It would appear imo that rather than it being a Jewish exile v Babylonian rule debate, that the two were happening at the same time, with Jerusalem falling 22 years after Babylon conquered Assyria.

Paul

103

Jeremiah and the 70 years. Jewish exile or Babylonian rule?

by digderidoo in

i have never until a few days ago been able to reconcile the 70 year prophecy with the 587/6 bce date for jerusalems destruction.

although a post was about this in a previous thread by a@g , i would like to explore this more.. when the 70 years are applied to babylonian rule, rather than the jewish exile everything seems to make sense.. to ellaborate for those who haven't come across it, this is how 587/6 does match the 70 year prophecy.. i hope a@g doesn't mind but i have cut and paste his post:-.

the 587 date does match the bible.... (jeremiah 25:11) 11 and all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of babylon seventy years.".

digderidoo

Excellent links RR.

I've book marked them to read later. At first glance it seems to show how the Jewish exile was 70 years, but harmonises it within the Babylonian rule. In saying that Jews bagan to be taken into captivity prior to Jerusalems destruction. But i'll give it a good read over the next few days.

Paul