Jeremiah and the 70 years. Jewish exile or Babylonian rule?

by digderidoo 103 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  digderidoo

  I have never until a few days ago been able to reconcile the 70 year prophecy with the 587/6 BCE date for Jerusalems destruction. Although a post was about this in a previous thread by A@G , i would like to explore this more.

  When the 70 years are applied to Babylonian rule, rather than the Jewish exile everything seems to make sense.

  To ellaborate for those who haven't come across it, this is how 587/6 does match the 70 year prophecy.

  I hope A@G doesn't mind but i have cut and paste his post:-

  The 587 date does match the Bible...

  (Jeremiah 25:11) 11 And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years."’

  The 1st time the Bible mentions the 70 years period it mentions that Babylon would dominate other nations for 70 years. It does not say here that the Jews would be in Babylon for 70 years, although this is an idea in Jeremriah 29:10 (NWT):

  (Jeremiah 29:10) 10 "For this is what Jehovah has said, ‘In accord with the fulfilling of seventy years at Babylon I shall turn my attention to YOU people, and I will establish toward YOU my good word in bringing YOU back to this place.’

  However, all other Bible translations that I know of translate use the word "for" instead of "at"...

  i.e.:NIV: 10 This is what the LORD says: "When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my gracious promise to bring you back to this place.

  This translation harmonizes with Jer 25:11 with the idea that 70 years refers to Babylon's time, not the Jews exile.

  Babylon's domination ended in 539BCE, a date agreed upon by the WTS. This would mean that the 70 years period would have to start in 609BCE. What happened in that year? Babylon attacked Assyria in 609 BCE.

  This would harmonize with both secular history and the Bible. Josephus also mentions that the Jews were in Babylon for 50 years, not 70. So it all coincides.

  In 609BCE Babylon attacked the last stronghold of Assyria with the capture of Harran. Ashur-uballit the last Assyrian king then disappears from history. This then meant "nations will have to serve the King of Babylon"(Jer25:11)

  A criticism of this application is that Jer 25:1 places the year of this prophecy in 605BCE when it states," in the first year of Nebuchadnezzar". Some use this as saying that it must therefore not be a prophecy as 4 years have already passed. However even if this is written 4 years into the 70 years prophecy as v1 would suggest, i still fail to see how this is not prophecy.

  Upon further research i have come across this link, clearly showing a Babylonian rule of 70 years.

  http://www.science.co.il/Maps-Near-East-Empires.asp

  When the application of the 70 year prophecy is placed with Babylonian rule, rather than Jewish exile it all seems to make sense to me.

  I would appreciate other thoughts and comments on this.

  Paul
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  digderidoo

  Well i thought it was interesting!

  Paul
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  Alwayshere

  Your research is right. I also done the same and came up with the same year 587. Zechariah 7 verse1 and 5 proves this. 518 was King Darius's fourth year so if you count 518 as 1 year for the fasting and add 69 more years, you will get 587. Even at the top of the WTS's bible, at chapter 7, it says 70 years. The Bible and History agree. WTS does not agree with anyone but their self.
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  Narkissos

  Hello didgeridoo,

  Briefly put,

  1. Keep in mind that the stereotyped phrase "seventy years" (in a context of punishment) is at best a round or approximative chronological indication; so a historical explanation that seems to fit exactly is by no means more likely to be accurate on exegetical grounds.

  2. There is every reason to think that the different Bible texts mentioning the "seventy years" do not have the same period in view, even though they may reference or allude to Jeremiah. Iow, the interpretation of the "seventy years" varies within the OT, and this may affect the text of Jeremiah itself due to the process of edition or "rewriting".

  At least 3 interpretations can be distinguished:

  a. the (approximative) time of neo-Babylonian rule over the region (i.e. several "nations," including Judah). This one clearly starts before Jerusalem's final fall (609 or 605 for instance, it doesn't really matter as we are dealing with a round figure) and ends with Cyrus' conquest of Babylon in 539. This definitely applies to Jeremiah 29 (cf. also chapter 27) and part of 25:11: "and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years."

  b. the time of punishment which starts with Jerusalem's fall but does not end with Cyrus' conquest or the return from exile: this is definitely the case in Zechariah and Daniel 9 (where the 70 years are extended to 70 x 7 years, down to the Maccabean period in the 2nd century BC).

  c. the time of desolation of the land of Judah, which is historically unaccurate (since the exile only lasted about 50 years, cf. the 1st "7 weeks" of Daniel 9, and did not imply a complete desolation to begin with), but seems to be in view in 2 Chronicles 36 (and later in Josephus, although he does know from Berossus the actual duration of the exile). I tend to think that this third interpretation (c) was worked along with the first one (a) into the extant text of Jeremiah 25:11, for the part: "This whole land shall become a ruin and a waste, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years."

  Bottom line: I don't think your explanation can work for all OT references to the 70 years (and perhaps not even for the extant Jeremiah 25:11) anymore than the fanciful WT one. The situation is much more complex.
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  Alwayshere

  Jehoiakim and Zedekiah were the last to rule and each ruled 11 years. 609-22=587.
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  AnnOMaly

  A criticism of this application is that Jer 25:1 places the year of this prophecy in 605BCE when it states," in the first year of Nebuchadnezzar". Some use this as saying that it must therefore not be a prophecy as 4 years have already passed. However even if this is written 4 years into the 70 years prophecy as v1 would suggest, i still fail to see how this is not prophecy.

  Some additional info. Those first 4 years seem to have campaigns concentrated in the north (Assyria/Armenia/Turkey areas) according to the Chronicles. 605 was the Carchemish battle and then Neb and his army pressed southwards into Palestine, Philistia, etc. Jer. 25:1ff relates to 605 and beyond.
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  RR

  Here are a few sources: The Biblical 70 Years: A Look at the exile and desolation periods - http://www.biblestudents.net/library/biblical70years.pdf

  Dating the Desolation - http://www.biblestudents.net/library/datingthedeolation.pdf
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  digderidoo

  Excellent links RR.

  I've book marked them to read later. At first glance it seems to show how the Jewish exile was 70 years, but harmonises it within the Babylonian rule. In saying that Jews bagan to be taken into captivity prior to Jerusalems destruction. But i'll give it a good read over the next few days.

  Paul
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  Mary

  Excellent topic and I'm trying to educate myself on this as much as possible. There are 3 other scriptures the Witnesses use to denote the idea that they were in captivity for 70 years. How do we explain the following:

  (Daniel 9:2) in the first year of his reigning I myself, Daniel, discerned by the books the number of the years concerning which the word of Jehovah had occurred to Jeremiah the prophet, for fulfilling the devastations of Jerusalem, [namely,] seventy years.

  (Zechariah 1:12) So the angel of Jehovah answered and said: "O Jehovah of armies, how long will you yourself not show mercy to Jerusalem and to the cities of Judah, whom you have denounced these seventy years?"

  (Zechariah 7:5) "Say to all the people of the land and to the priests, ‘When YOU fasted and there was a wailing in the fifth [month] and in the seventh [month], and this for seventy years, did YOU really fast to me, even me?
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  digderidoo

  Mary, check the link http://www.science.co.il/Maps-Near-East-Empires.asp

  Clearly showing the Babylon empire, covering Israel. Jerusalem fell in 587/6, but other links such as those posted by RR show how Jews we're being governed prior to the destruction of Jerusalem.

  I myself am learning as i go along with this one. It would appear imo that rather than it being a Jewish exile v Babylonian rule debate, that the two were happening at the same time, with Jerusalem falling 22 years after Babylon conquered Assyria.

  Paul