Joel,
There must be two Parkfoot Hills congregations. Danni has said she works in Florida.
detective
JoinedPosts by detective
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74
I'm another Newbie
by MyMy inhey peeps, how are you?.
the name is mark, i've been hanging around here from time to time.
i read about the elders meeting with officer danni.s.
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detective
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221
The meeting did not go well.
by Danni init would have taken more much more time to tell it all.
he told us the meeting would began as soon as the other brothers arrived.
danni: i will give you two.
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detective
Here we go again with the blanket statements...
From Danni: "Detctive you are just a lot of talk. You want to put me down for what I did but, that's all you will do. You won't go anywhere to make a difference. you will come here everyday and complain about those who don't follow your instructions on how things should be handled. I am still waiting for you march your ass over there and do something."Uh, how the hell would you know what efforts I have or have not put in on this or any other issue? Let's be honest, here. You have no idea what contributions I have or haven't made. You know little to nothing about me. Regardless, this is not about me. This is about the situation you described. But unless I agree with how things went off in your situation, then according to you I'm supporting the society or never doing anything to help or just otherwise useless and evil. You'll notice that I've criticized your ACTIONS relating to this incident. I have not implied anything beyond it pertaining to your character. At least, I haven't intentionally done so, correct me if I'm wrong. And yet, you have offered a variety of comments intended to belittle me, despite the fact that, with one exception, I've hardly demonstrated even mild annoyance towards you. It would be helpful if you would stop trying to paint everyone who doesn't immediately agree with your methods with such broad, and more than a little bit insulting brush strokes.
At this point I should probably give up speaking with you as it's not simply that you don't agree with me that's the problem, it's that you don't want to hear what I'm saying. And when you speak to me, all I'm hearing is condemnation and contempt towards me, mixed with the very emotion that, while I admire it, I feel it contributed to your misdirected actions. I've tried to praise your intentions while not really appreciating your methods but all I get is silly little insults back from you. I tend to wonder if this is how you conduct your police business? Broad generalizations, condemning though uninformed insults? Is this the person that walked into that meeting? Or did you add a badge and an attitude to the mix? No offense, but that doesn't strike me as a good combination and I'm not entirely sure I support that approach. Look, I really hope that's not the case. I could go on about this and a few other concerns but I think it's pretty pointless at the moment.
I see alot of victims related to the organization. And I see victims who are likely to turn around into victimizers. Not just on the sexual abuse issue either, but in a variety of areas. That's what I see. I don't know how to fix it. I just know it's damn complex. I hope you understand that much.
Good luck with whatever you do.
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221
The meeting did not go well.
by Danni init would have taken more much more time to tell it all.
he told us the meeting would began as soon as the other brothers arrived.
danni: i will give you two.
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detective
Wow! Talk about taking a beating for daring to hold a dissenting view. Let's see, it's been insinuated that people who haven't fully agreed with Danni's approach are supporting elders, child molesters, the society and have little or no regard for victims. Well, if you don't like how she went about things there must be something wrong with YOU. You must be deficient, ruthless, evil or uncaring because you didn't step up with support for Danni's methods! Uh, sorry, but those types of responses are only intended to insult and belittle opposing opinions and those holding them. They are completely unfounded generalizations that do nothing but act as hurtful allegations in an attempt to quell dissent.
I am not, nor have I ever supported the watchtower policies on pedophilia. I am not, nor will I ever support the blatant abuse of power that the society engages in. It outrages and saddens me in ways that I cannot even begin to convey.
What I have taken issue with, as you will see if you read my responses to Danni in an earlier thread, is that an abuse of power is an abuse of power. I certainly despise it as the Watchtower does it, and I don't think it should be answered with additional abuses of power even if they are well meaning. Should I applaud Danni's throwing around of her police weight when on unofficial business that will only make a minute handful of people squirmand not even get close to touching the broader concern? Honestly, it doesn't seem to have accomplished much. I asked Danni what her goals were and she either didn't have any specific goals or chose not to explain them. What I am concerned with is that Danni, though invited to this meeting, was treated with substantially more interest than if she were any other interested party simply because she was a police officer. It looks to me as if she and her partner used this to their advantage. And why? Danni is NOT investigating a specific crime relevent to that specific congregation. How many times do we have to go over this point? She wasn't on the job, she was just acting like she was on the job. It is my opinion that Danni did not effectively convey her CIVILIAN interest and instead blurred the line between personal and professional interest in such a manner that she evoked a substantially emotional, legalistic and defensive response. Taking advantage of your authority when in a civilian capacity, is not something I can applaud, even if in this particular case I support the basic cause. Does anyone want to correct me in my belief that none of this hubballoo would have transpired if she and Darryl were plumbers? And what did all this do for the larger issue?
Instead, she jeopardized her own job. She brought in Bill Bowen's name and possibly risked some damaging recourse for him. Hopefully that's not the case. She undermined the professionalism of her police department and this resulted in a verbal threat of a lawsuit. All this for a few minutes of come-uppance that in all liklihood that acheived little or nothing for the larger issue. All this because she didn't review her goals and de-escalate the situation long before she walked into the meeting.
I don't doubt that she is a decent enough person, nor a caring person. I believe she is. I also believe that in the larger sense, she accomplished very little and possibly risked a great deal more because she became so emotionally involved that she wasn't able to really assess the situation and the bigger picture. I believe her emotions clouded her judgement and clouded her ability to distinguish between an on the job assignment and a personal vendetta. That's potential fuel for serious abuses and corruption, I can't ignore that simply because I too, am horrified by what I've learned of the Watchtower's policies. I'm not saying that Danni is corrupt, nor do I believe she will be corrupt at some point in the future. But I believe she's acting like a loose cannon and it will only work to her detriment and possibly to the detriment of others. There's every reason to be pissed about what she's learned of their policies so far, but being too reactionary isn't going to help in the long run. This problem is bigger than uniformed police officer Danni. Without a specific crime, investigation into would need to be done at a higher or at the very least, interdepartmental or interstate/federal cooperational level to get to the root of the problem which is in Brooklyn. Or, you skewer them in the press.Danni, the best thing you can do is to weigh whether or not you can do more good as a police officer or as a six-dollar an hour security guard- which is what you'll be if you push the wrong buttons with those legal freaks in Brooklyn. All because of these careless methods you've been using. You are walking a fine line with a lawsuit loving group. I'm just encouraging you to refrain from jeopardizing yourself and others by being EXTRA CAUTIOUS in your dealings with members of this group.
To clarify, I'm glad Danni's incensed but I don't care for her methods. I guess in some peoples opinion's that makes me something akin to a child molester or watchtower sympathizer. I can't help it if someone wants to view me that way but that's completely off base, unfair and cruel. -
221
The meeting did not go well.
by Danni init would have taken more much more time to tell it all.
he told us the meeting would began as soon as the other brothers arrived.
danni: i will give you two.
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detective
And one other thing. I do believe I DID warn you to use caution, review your goals and be perfectly clear that you were not there on official business. I think that's when you implied I was a lawyer(?) or otherwise tried to laugh off my warnings? So please don't suggest that everyone was gung ho on your approach. Again, I'm glad you feel motivated, I'm just not a fan of abusing power.
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221
The meeting did not go well.
by Danni init would have taken more much more time to tell it all.
he told us the meeting would began as soon as the other brothers arrived.
danni: i will give you two.
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detective
I brought this up before and I'll do it again. In an earlier thread I warned you that you appeared to be perilously close to comprising professionalism in your "off duty" interest. As much as I'd like to cheer over a few elders squirming I think that we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that you were not there on official business. There is no specific crime that you are investigating relating to this particular kingdom hall. Like so many others, you are deeply distressed by the organizational policy that prevents victims of abuse from receiving proper treatment and from seeing that victimizers pay the price for their crimes. However, there was no specific incident relating to that hall you were investigating. I appreciate your interest as a person. I still maintain that you have been blurring the lines of your professional interest and your personal interest. Either you were there in a professional capacity or you were not. Which is it?
The loose cannon approach is not going to be particularly beneficial. If your department wants to launch an investigation then I assume you would be assigned the case? But you were not. Were you approached by a victim at this particular hall? As far as I can tell, you were not. It seems your justifiable complaint is with the organzation- headquartered in Brooklyn. Therefore, you are looking at a situation that is out of your jurisdiction, are you not? Aside from contacting the FBI, what are your plans? You have no victim, no perpetrator and no suspicion of a crime within your jurisdiction- specifically this particular hall, do you?
Listen, I'd love to see the organization hang for it's hideous policies- the pedophilia issue is particularly grotesque. But I really think you've crossed a number of lines in this allegedly unofficial investigation. It's my opinion that you and your partner over-stepped bounds by throwing around the police officer mentality as if you were actually investigating a specific offense. If you were a plumber, I hardly think you would have caused such an uproar. You are a police officer who doesn't seem to know when she's on the clock or off it. I believe the term is "yahoo". Does that sound familiar? That's the slang term people in my area use when police/fire/ambulance employees are so enthused by their own seemingly powerful status that they can't clock off, if you will.
I am as outraged by things that go on as the next person but I really can't support the way things have come off so far with your inquest. It's nice to feel powerful, but you and your partner are not powerful in this situation. All you are doing is making some people tremble because they don't understand that you have no power over them as it stands. Yet you and your partner let them believe that you do. If you are going to start an investigation (though right now you have no basis for investigating this congregation), then do it! But seeing as you don't currently have even a suspicion of a crime within that congregation, then do not contact them again. You obviously didn't make it abundantly clear that your interest is not a professional one, which I think is pretty questionable behavior on your part. It's a terrible abuse of power that has seeped into your professional life by the contacting of your police chief.
This isn't Mayberry. If you can't see that you are dealing with a much bigger animal than those hapless men, then you aren't much of an investigator. I'm sorry, I don't usually go off on people but this is absurd. This is a sensleless approach that lost sight of it's goals- the victims! Let go of the power issues and start recognizing that from where you stand- without a specific crime- you've got nothing. So try being a concerned civilian and lay off the yahoo behavior before it backfires. This crazy behavior could cost you and others big time. -
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Who will be the next 'king of the north'?
by YoYoMama ininteresting news article: http://web.star-telegram.com/content/fortworth/2002/01/10/dfw/news-011002-02.htm
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detective
What do you mean "who will be the NEXT king of the north"? The NEXT? Just how many kings of the north did the bible speak of? Who was the last king of the north? Don't you mean "who will the society NEXT name as the king of the north because they last one they thought was the king of the north was not"?
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detective
January babies rock!
Happy birthday!
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How busy are we?
by Simon ini do miss many of the people who've come and gone and hope they'll pop in and let us know how things are going but understand that people won't post on here forever.. in case anyone is concerned because it appears that people are leaving i thought i'd put you minds at rest:.
last week was the busiest ever traffic-wise.
i expect this week to top that (perhaps it's since wol closed?
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detective
Your numbers keep going up? Just a sign that your "works" are truly blessed.
Thanks so much for all your efforts on this forum. It's definitely appreciated.
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My interview with Jehovah's Witnesses
by Danni ini know i said i wouldn't post here again because of the way i made everyone upset over alanf,but i thought you all might want to know what took place and i do need some advice.. .
yesterday i took a little time out to talk with jehovah's witnesses.
at first they were more than happy to answer my questions.
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detective
Hi Danni,
I'm the one who mentioned the abuse of power issue, just to clarify. Mind you, I'm not saying you are abusing power but to be cautious so that it doesn't appear that way.
I guess I want to know what your objective is. I know you are interested in a JW fellow and this may have contributed to your curiousity about his religion. Whatever transpired in your conversation between you and this other fellow, it's pretty safe to say he walked away spooked. Somehow, during your conversation this fellow ended up feeling some sort of pressure to respond to you. Only you would know how that might have come about but judging from the legalistic tones and the call to your supervisor, this guy is definitely intimidated. Since you are not acting in an official capacity, I really think you should consider de-escalating the situation.
If your objective is to get a bunch of strangers spooked, which I don't think it is, then it looks like you've succeeded. If your objective is to learn more about the religion, then it'd be appropriate to turn it down a notch so that you can regain their trust and real conversation can ensue. If your objective is to get them thinking then it would also be wise to bring the tension down a bit, otherwise they are completely defensive and you won't have much luck. I think you became interested in the religion because of a person and if you don't want to alienate that person, you have to go to great lengths to make sure that your cop persona is not the one he is talking to.
It's natural to be frustrated when talking to people who are evasive. I myself had to bite my lip a number of times when my JW friend intimated that I had the insight of a four year old because I wasn't just accpeting the ol' rigoromol(sp.) Yes, I could have had him for lunch, but it would have done nothing more than destroy the rapport between us. So, I would encourage you to look at your objectives. Decide what you want out of your discussions. If you want a solid friendship with that guy you've had your eye on, then you have to step back and work on rebuilding the trust that went out the window after your conversation with his friends. If you want to strut your stuff (I can't say I blame you!), then be prepared for the fact that you could damage all rapport and if that's okay with you- then I whole heartedly think you should go for it and do it with style! Just be sure of what it is you want to gain out of this situation and keep reminding yourself of their "victim" status. They don't always lie because they are evil, they sometimes lie because it is the only way to cling to their world view. Good luck with this. Keep us posted. -
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My interview with Jehovah's Witnesses
by Danni ini know i said i wouldn't post here again because of the way i made everyone upset over alanf,but i thought you all might want to know what took place and i do need some advice.. .
yesterday i took a little time out to talk with jehovah's witnesses.
at first they were more than happy to answer my questions.
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detective
It sounds to me as though they do not understand that you are asking questions due to personal interest. I think they have confused your personal interest with an official inquiry or investigation. You really should put an end to the misconception that they are somehow obligated legally to respond to you when you are not on official police business. I don't know if it is the fact that you are an authority figure that has them running to get legal input for a basic conversation or if they are just easily spooked but you need to make sure that they realize this is a personal interest. In other words, be careful to not accidently abuse your power by throwing it around when you are not on official business. Maybe you've got that hard-nosed cop thing down better than you think or they've read too many detective(!) novels or seen one too many Die Hard movies, but it sounds as if they aren't fully convinced that you're just an average joe asking the questions. As silly as this may seem, you need to repeat it until you're blue in the face because they don't seem to be getting it!
I highly doubt that the legal department would be contacting me if I started asking a witness some questions about this issue. However, if I mention I work for the press or for the police or a lawyers office, I've immediately hit upon something that strikes fear in their hearts. It would be dishonest to use that fear factor to intimidate them (despite the fact they continuously exploit the fears of their adherents/converts). It seems most witnesses would just walk away from a conversation that they clearly couldn't win (maybe not online, but in person anyway!) Try to remember that the average witness isn't really encouraged to question authority.
These people felt OBLIGATED to respond to you, hence their calling legal and your supervisor etc. By not making sure they understand this was personal interest, you inadvertantly contributed to their belief that you were asking in an authoritative manner, not a conversational manner. If you aren't cautious, this could look like an abuse of power. I'm not saying that's your intention, I'm just saying that this is how it could be interpreted.
Additionally, you ran the risk of looking unprofessional in front of your boss and colleagues. It would probably be best if you diffused the situation by explaining you are simply an interested party and that they needn't go to so much trouble or something casually and non-interrogational sounding. Do something to de-escalate the situation, at least that's my thought on the matter.