Posts by freetosee

82

When will people "stop" relying on "churches and religions" for happiness?

by booker-t in

jw
friends

it just breaks my heart when i read some of the posts on this websites and hear all of the horror stories about people and families suffering because of what the church or religion did to them.

not just jw's or mormons, but catholics, born-agains are also included in this group.

i bet you could find just as many disgruntle ex-catholics and ex-born-agains out in the world who have been severly hurt by their church.

freetosee

XJW,

my reply was to this statment...

It was not the believers who turned this thread into a debate, it was the non believers. This topic was about relying too much on religion itself - not a debate on chrisitanity.

And as I posted before “it goes both ways” with which I mean Christians/atheists/whatever. None of the so-called “unbelievers” made a statement like the one above. But if I had read a statement like “It was not the unbelievers who turned this thread into a debate, it was the believers. This topic was about relying too much on religion itself - not a debate on chrisitanity.” I reassure you I would have replied in the same way, with a quote of ‘a’ turning point. I was replying to the above statement and not critical of your style. So I directly pointed to evidence that make me disagree with blaming the “unbelievers” for starting debates. One of the things that turned me off the JWD, when I first found this site some years ago, was the aggressive manner Christians were replied to. But now I see it goes both ways. It is not only the “unbelievers” who start heated debates.

Anyone is free to say what they want (keeping to the JWD guidelines). And if I believe a Christian is more suiting to give help someone in search, I am happy to refer them to “believers”…

Hallo JW,
I think you have a great sense of humour!
I am not Christian, but some posters are, like lovlylil and others. I recommend you reply to her post and surly you can enjoy an intelligent exchange of issues. Please ignore the ones you find illogical.
All the best,
freetosee

82

When will people "stop" relying on "churches and religions" for happiness?

by booker-t in

jw
friends

it just breaks my heart when i read some of the posts on this websites and hear all of the horror stories about people and families suffering because of what the church or religion did to them.

not just jw's or mormons, but catholics, born-agains are also included in this group.

i bet you could find just as many disgruntle ex-catholics and ex-born-agains out in the world who have been severly hurt by their church.

freetosee

It was not the believers who turned this thread into a debate, it was the non believers. This topic was about relying too much on religion itself - not a debate on chrisitanity.

I don't think so. A turning point was here:

When will people like you quit telling people like me that we don't need church?
Do you get "happiness" be denigrating those of us that attend church?
Why do you feel the need to shove your values down my throat?
For every one person that is still "unhappy" due to their church situation I can produce at least 10 times as many that are. What have you proved? Nothing.
I am moving along now

As an unbeliever I tryed to avoid debate on this thread. But anyway...

JWD is a forum where all points of view are expressed. (Long may it stay that way, too! We had enough of censorship / gagging while we were in the borg.)

24

Lonely newbie who is glad to be here

by DesertRat in

jw
friends

i was directed to this site by a very kind ex-witness who runs a christian ministry in california.

there are no words to express how thankful i am to be here.. here is what i hope (key word) will be an abbreviated version of my story: i am 35 years old, single, the only child of jw parents who had already spent over ten years in various watchtower capacities (two of those years as gilead missionaries in guatemala) before i was born.

my father was diagnosed with brain cancer when i was 11 and finally succumbed, after a valiant fight, when i was 14. among the first doubts or questions i remember having was how a god of 'love' could just passively ignore the persecution (malawi!!!

freetosee

DesertRat, it helped and does help me a lot to communicate with others who experienced life as a JW. When I was a teenager my family had the DO and his wife for dinner. He asked me what I want to do in the future and I told him I want to study psychology and think all elder should study it. One of my teachers had studied it (others too) and I thought he would make a good elder. Not knowing the WT view on this, I thought I made a good point. And since one of our COs studied psychology before becoming a witness I was surprised the DO quoting this studied CO saying “psychology doesn’t from but deforms you!” When elders came to meet with my father at home to prepare for a shepherding call, I was disturbed because their preparation was just like preparing for a program point at the meetings. They looked up the elder book, WT’s and scriptures to read to the troubled witness. The atmosphere was not ‘how can we help this person?’ but ‘how can we get this job over with and get back home on time?” The fact that they would talk about the case in the living room or kitchen showed that they had no interest in being discreet. Most elders are neither interested nor qualified to handle mental distress. Their main concern is to fulfil the WT guidelines and not to get in trouble with the CO. And them telling us to ‘pray and study more, wait and trust in Jehovah’ gives them an alibi that they have done a good job and are themselves trusting in Jehovah. Thinking back, there were many cases were the elders worsened the situation for the ‘weak publisher’ instead of helping. They passed judgment not encouragement. I had many fears leaving the organisation. Meeting worldly people and becoming friends was remarkable. Receiving help from complete strangers was a total contradiction to the WT view and teaching. I am sure you will find many who can relate to you here. To communicate with people who understand what we have been through is wonderful. The experiences are the same no matter what country it is. Welcome again, freetosee

24

Lonely newbie who is glad to be here

by DesertRat in

jw
friends

i was directed to this site by a very kind ex-witness who runs a christian ministry in california.

there are no words to express how thankful i am to be here.. here is what i hope (key word) will be an abbreviated version of my story: i am 35 years old, single, the only child of jw parents who had already spent over ten years in various watchtower capacities (two of those years as gilead missionaries in guatemala) before i was born.

my father was diagnosed with brain cancer when i was 11 and finally succumbed, after a valiant fight, when i was 14. among the first doubts or questions i remember having was how a god of 'love' could just passively ignore the persecution (malawi!!!

freetosee

DesertRat, it helped and does help me a lot to communicate with others who experienced life as a JW.

When I was a teenager my family had the DO and his wife for dinner. He asked me what I want to do in the future and I told him I want to study psychology and think all elder should study it. One of my teachers had studied it (others too) and I thought he would make a good elder. Not knowing the WT view on this, I thought I made a good point. And since one of our

When elders came to meet with my father at home to prepare for a shepherding call, I was disturbed because their preparation was just like preparing for a program point at the meetings. They looked up the elder book, WT’s and scriptures to read to the troubled witness. The atmosphere was not ‘how can we help this person?’ but ‘how can we get this job over with and get back home on time?” The fact that they would talk about the case in the living room or kitchen showed that they had no interest in being discreet. Most elders are neither interested nor qualified to handle mental distress. Their main concern is to fulfil the WT guidelines and not to get in trouble with the CO. And them telling us to ‘pray and study more, wait and trust in Jehovah’ gives them an alibi that they have done a good job and are themselves trusting in Jehovah. Thinking back, there were many cases were the elders worsened the situation for the ‘weak publisher’ instead of helping. They passed judgment not encouragement.

I had many fears leaving the organisation. Meeting worldly people and becoming friends was remarkable. Receiving help from complete strangers was a total contradiction to the WT view and teaching.

I am sure you will find many who can relate to you here. To communicate with people who understand what we have been through is wonderful. The experiences are the same no matter what country it is.

Welcome again, freetosee

24

Lonely newbie who is glad to be here

by DesertRat in

jw
friends

i was directed to this site by a very kind ex-witness who runs a christian ministry in california.

there are no words to express how thankful i am to be here.. here is what i hope (key word) will be an abbreviated version of my story: i am 35 years old, single, the only child of jw parents who had already spent over ten years in various watchtower capacities (two of those years as gilead missionaries in guatemala) before i was born.

my father was diagnosed with brain cancer when i was 11 and finally succumbed, after a valiant fight, when i was 14. among the first doubts or questions i remember having was how a god of 'love' could just passively ignore the persecution (malawi!!!

freetosee

Welcome Desertrat,

I look forward to reading your story tomorrow as it is bedtime for me now.

Freetosee

29

Cognitive Dissonance and WT downsizing

by Lady Lee in

there is a discussion on the board new jwd members on the horizon!

that suggests many of those who were pushed out of wt headquarters will leave the wts and some may find their way here.. i hope that is what happens.. but i have a sinking feeling that the opposite might happen.

in leon festinger's book when prophesy fails he states:.

freetosee

"closest to the truth" argument

Under believer, that’s a very good point you’re making. Thanks!

82

When will people "stop" relying on "churches and religions" for happiness?

by booker-t in

jw
friends

it just breaks my heart when i read some of the posts on this websites and hear all of the horror stories about people and families suffering because of what the church or religion did to them.

not just jw's or mormons, but catholics, born-agains are also included in this group.

i bet you could find just as many disgruntle ex-catholics and ex-born-agains out in the world who have been severly hurt by their church.

freetosee

I think booker-t’s thread was not meant to start a Christian vs. non-Christian debate. I get the impression you are forcing this into a debate of that nature. I have read some Christian posters in the past complaining about atheists jumping in and starting heated debates, but this surly goes both ways. There is nothing wrong in debating this issue, many threads and posters do, so there is lots of opportunity to do so on other threads.

You saying “Think before you answer!” reminds me more of a warning or threat than an encouragement. It is surly not the usual end-line I have been reading so far. Or is it an implication that I was not thoughtful in my posting. I can’t help but feel when reading your posting on this thread that you are overreacting to comments not completely in line with your thinking, that you are easily offended when it comes to your faith in Jesus. I don’t believe in Jesus or the bible, however if you find happiness in your faith I am happy for you and any xjw who finally experience “real” Christian life.

Freetosee

82

When will people "stop" relying on "churches and religions" for happiness?

by booker-t in

jw
friends

it just breaks my heart when i read some of the posts on this websites and hear all of the horror stories about people and families suffering because of what the church or religion did to them.

not just jw's or mormons, but catholics, born-agains are also included in this group.

i bet you could find just as many disgruntle ex-catholics and ex-born-agains out in the world who have been severly hurt by their church.

freetosee

Please read my post again and you will find the direct answer to your question.

I know A FEW xjws who joined dangerous Christian cults…

a few who went back to the WTS…

very few who committed suicide…

a few who became atheist…

one who became Muslim…

…and some who claim still to be JWs just that they are D’F don’t go to the meetings…. Oh, I almost forgot, a few became happy Christians!

Thinking soundly before writing posts helps me not to overreact!

82

When will people "stop" relying on "churches and religions" for happiness?

by booker-t in

jw
friends

it just breaks my heart when i read some of the posts on this websites and hear all of the horror stories about people and families suffering because of what the church or religion did to them.

not just jw's or mormons, but catholics, born-agains are also included in this group.

i bet you could find just as many disgruntle ex-catholics and ex-born-agains out in the world who have been severly hurt by their church.

freetosee

I know a few xjws who changed from one cult to the next and condemned me for not coming along. The question is why do some xjws fall into the trap of another cult when they have just been through the WTS? It is as sad as those going back to the JWorg after falling deeper into depression and are now even more vulnerable to the WT manipulation. The problem is like booker-t said; they have not found inner happiness.

There are many factors that add to this insecurity -childhood experiences, dysfunctional families, religious manipulation, to mention a few. So they are easily sucked in by those claiming to offer true happiness.

On the other hand, I am often baffled with admiration whenever I meet people who have experienced terrible hardships or suffer from illness or handicaps and yet are full of life and joyful individuals.

Freetosee

160

Laughing laughing laughing

by darcy in

jw
friends

wow.. so, you know i'm an active witness, very active.

hah.

and i'm not laughing at y'all, but wow, i can't believe how extensive this is.

freetosee

Vielen Dank smellsgood, mir geht es gut.

Thanks for warning people about this dangerous cult. Sometimes I think the WTS is too small and insignificant that outsiders take it serious, so it’s great to have people like you. And you know what’s good, when you get an opportunity to speak directly to JW’s they can’t just turn away from you and stamp you “apostate” as they can (and are told to) do to us xJWs. Darcy is an exception to the rule.

Freetosee