Posts by dozy

22

THE NEW SYSTEM WILL BE OVER CROWDED ?

by vitty in

im following along a little from the above topic.

i remember in a book study reading that there are more people alive on the earth today than have ever lived in the past.......6 billion.

so is it true that less than 6 billion people have ever lived up to this century?.

dozy

The WTS did take a rather clumsy stab at this seemingly insurmountable problem in the Insight book (which was cut and paste from the Aid book)...

***
it-2p.792Resurrection***
Resurrection
During1,000Years. A very liberal estimate of the number of persons that have ever lived on earth is 20 billion (20,000,000,000). Many students of the subject calculate that not nearly so many have lived. Not all of these, as it has been shown in the foregoing discussion, will receive a resurrection, but even assuming that they did, there would be no problem as to living space and food for them. The land surface of the earth at present is about 148,000,000 sq km (57,000,000 sq mi), or about 14,800,000,000 ha (36,500,000,000 acres). Even allowing half of that to be set aside for other uses, there would be more than a third of a hectare (almost 1 acre) for each person. As to earth’s potential food production, a third of a hectare will actually provide much more than enough food for one person, especially when, as God has demonstrated in the case of the nation of Israel, there is abundance of food as a result of God’s blessing

The WTS illustraters seem to take a different view with their depiction of delightful lake front properties in the paradise where the nearest house is a mile across the water.

Slightly OT , but I know of many JWs who have had miscarriages who believe that these unborn babies will also get a resurrection , so that would swell the numbers even more.

5

with the number of gb members now down to 9 (and possibly only half a dozen active members) it is surely inevitable that new members will be appointed , probably in time for the start of the new service year in september or at the agm in early october , as this is the traditional time of the announcement.

for the record , the last two appointments were announced as follows:.

***w063/15p.26 new members of the governing body*** .

dozy

***
w001/1p.29NewMembersoftheGoverningBody***
The 10,594 in attendance or connected by tie line were thrilled to hear that four new members had been added to the Governing Body

Even more exciting in 2000!

5

New GB members?

by dozy in

jw
friends

with the number of gb members now down to 9 (and possibly only half a dozen active members) it is surely inevitable that new members will be appointed , probably in time for the start of the new service year in september or at the agm in early october , as this is the traditional time of the announcement.

for the record , the last two appointments were announced as follows:.

***w063/15p.26 new members of the governing body*** .

dozy

With the number of GB members now down to 9 (and possibly only half a dozen active members) it is surely inevitable that new members will be appointed , probably in time for the start of the new service year in September or at the AGM in early October , as this is the traditional time of the announcement. For the record , the last two appointments were announced as follows:

***
w063/15p.26 New Members of the Governing Body***
ON Wednesday morning, August 24, 2005, the United States and Canada Bethel families, connected by video, heard an exciting announcement. Effective September 1, 2005, two new members—Geoffrey W. Jackson and Anthony Morris III—would be added to the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses... Brother Jackson was made a helper to the Teaching Committee of the Governing Body... Brother Morris worked in the Service Department at Patterson and later as a helper to the Service Committee of the Governing Body.

The previous 4 appointments (Herd , Lett , Splaine & Pierce) were also "Nethinim" members , so presumably the new appointments will also come from this group. Any ideas from former Bethelites as to who is in the frame this time? ( A few rumours suggest Bill Nonkes , Robert Ciranko and Leonard Pearson, although Leonard is probably too old - he had his chance and didn't take it). I'm assuming that there aren't too many "anointed" ones in the various committees , so it can't exactly be like choosing from a cast of thousands. Will the GB open it up to US hispanic or foreign members?

53

What is driving change at WTS? What is the GB? Has it failed the flock?

by yaddayadda in

i have been wondering a lot about this lately.

what drives changes to policy and interpretations?

what processes are in place, if any?

dozy

Interesting topic , YY , and something that I have wondered about over the years. Thanks for your comments and those of others.

I’ve little to add (but that’s never stopped me before!)

I’ve often thought about the GB as a kind of body of elders , but more elderly , conservative and parochial. Heavily resistant to change , lifetime indoctrinated , without the moderating and humbling influences of having to make a living , children (in most cases) and peers - all they really have is a “kiss up” fan club of often devoted followers - we have all seem the almost worshipful attitude of the R & F at conventions.

I’m assuming there is an element of sincerity and a profound awareness of the privilege (as they see it) of being “Christ’s brothers” and looking “after His interests of earth” , so perhaps they do reflect on current beliefs and puzzle over changes. But this must be minimum - they are kept busy with talks , zone visits etc which would be a punishing schedule for a young man , let alone 80 + year old men in some cases. RF noted that the GB rarely had time for bible study , and the present GB have little or any training in Hebrew , Greek or theology of any sort , other than being totally immersed in a lifetime of WTS culture. “Look up the index” seems to be the mantra of these individuals , if KM schools are anything to go by , so if in doubt , then we‘ll go with what we have always believed.

Other than the legal or financial pressures , I’m guessing that any doctrinal or procedural drivers come mainly from committee members and prominent HQ staff who have long standing friendships with the GB & who aren’t afraid of losing their position. It would be suicide (after the events of 79/80) if any of them were doing “deep bible study” & mentioned that they disagreed with a particular doctrine , but I’m assuming that they could raise a subject for discussion.

It is common knowledge that Branch members generally have very little influence and a largely place-men , virtually having to swear allegiance to the FDS. RF noted particular African branch members were nervous & reticent about bringing up issues , even with a liberal GB member like him. In private , branch committee members are surprisingly outspoken and I’m guessing that many of them doubt the authority of Brooklyn , but in public they are yes-men. It would be a one way ticket out of their position (and into the laundry or kitchen or (gasp - we need you on the circuit , brother) ) if they brought up any controversial issues. Notably , anointed members are rarely , if ever , appointed (which always strikes me as bizarre , as the leaders of the WTS are supposed to be from this group), presumably to stop any coup or power base developing.

10

Earthquakes (again!)

by dozy in

it still annoys me that the wts have never withdrawn their quote about the increased frequency of earthquakes (and this quote was used by several speakers in the recent special talk , unaware that the wts has changed its position on this) , so i emailed the national geophysical data center in colorado and the national earthquake information center in golden, colorado to get their comments.. my email & replies:.

dear sir / madam,.

the watchtower society of pennsylvania (the corporate arm of jehovah's witnesses) have for over twenty years been using the following quote to support their belief that earthquakes have increased since 1914 in fulfillment of bible prophecy.

dozy

It still annoys me that the WTS have never withdrawn their quote about the increased frequency of earthquakes (and this quote was used by several speakers in the recent special talk , unaware that the WTS has changed it’s position on this) , so I emailed the National Geophysical Data Center in Colorado and the National Earthquake Information Center in Golden, Colorado to get their comments.

My email & replies:

Dear Sir / Madam,

The Watchtower Society of Pennsylvania (the corporate arm of Jehovah's Witnesses) have for over twenty years been using the following quote to support their belief that earthquakes have increased since 1914 in fulfillment of bible prophecy. The following quote appears in the latest editions of their books "Reasoning from the Scriptures" and their comprehensive bible encyclopaedia "Insight on the Scriptures". It was also referred to in a special public talk given to over 100,000 congregations to upwards of 15 million people worldwide in April 2007.

Quote: “Since 1914 C.E., there has been an increase in the number of earthquakes, resulting in much distress. With data obtained from the National Geophysical Data Center in Boulder, Colorado, supplemented by a number of standard reference works, a tabulation was made in 1984 that included only earthquakes that measured 7.5 or more on the Richter scale, or that resulted in destruction of five million dollars (U.S.) or more in property, or that caused 100 or more deaths. It was calculated that there had been 856 of such earthquakes during the 2,000 years before 1914. The same tabulation showed that in just 69 years following 1914 there were 605 of such quakes. These statistics are a means of indicating the extent of suffering from earthquakes during this period of history. End of quote

Does the NGDC agree that earthquake data supports this conclusion and are you happy to endorse this claim? If not, can I ask if you made any contact with the Watchtower society to ask them to withdraw or clarify this quotation?

I would be most grateful for your comments , as I am keen to clarify my views on his matter.

.National Earthquake Information Center .. There is absolutely no way to determine the number of earthquakes, of any magnitude, that occurred during the 2,000 years before 1914. If the NGDC database contains a certain number, those are only the earthquakes that happened to be felt and written about in the historical literature. It does not include the much larger number that either occurred in unpopulated areas or were not noted in the existing literature. Going by any meaningful statistics, there is no increase in the frequency of earthquakes. Any increase in damage and casualties can be ascribed to the rapid increase in population and the attendant growth of the built environment.

I would be happy to discuss this with a representative of the Watchtower Society should they wish to contact me.

Sincerely,

USGS/NEIC

National Geophysical Data Centre To my knowledge, the Watchtower Society has not made contact with us
here at NGDC to endorse any of their claims.
These conclusions are strictly those of the Watchtower Society.
Numerous variables had to be considered in drawing these conclusions -
variables that are outside the scope of what NGDC does.
It would be inappropriate scientifically and ethically for us to support
any such claims.

43

Death Knell -- the Internet for the WTS

by Francophile in

i'm new here -- i confidently disassociated in 1994 (but really left the organization in 1992).

i was a ministerial servant and gave talks at conventions.

i'm not bragging, but just giving you an idea of my involvement.

dozy

Does anyone know from the inside whether elders are having to counsel more doubting sheep, due to the Internet?
I would think that more and more witnesses would be presenting Web printouts to the elders in their "sessions," which would show increasingly difficult-to-answer critiques of the WTS.

Purely anecdotally (sp?) , there certainly is a small impact , but it is limited. Generally people don't test out their core beliefs by researching negative sites - whether these are religious , political or in any other area - rather , they tend to look for reinforcement. The WTS has also done a good job in "demonising" the net , so few brothers would actively look up "apostate" sites. The tone & language of such sites is often a big turn-off as well - I remember when I first went online in the late 90's doing a bit of surfing and immediately being repelled by some of the sites around (and I've always regarded myself as being fairly liberal).

There is certainly an element of under-reporting as well - "doubting sheep" are hardly likely to present elders with reams of internet info as this could well lead to disfellowshipping - I'm guessing many doubters are just fading and giving other reasons (depression etc).

42

Aus Bethel 06 Annual Report - INCREDIBLE 50% DECREASE in donations

by jwfacts in

i just purchased the 2006 annual report for the australian watchtower bible and tract society.

below are the highlights.

most incredible is that donations dropped by almost 50%, from 15 million dollars to only 10 million dollars.

dozy

Trend in the UK is fairly flat , though I'm still waiting for the latest figures to come up - WTS seems a bit slow in submitting the report for last year.

WTBTS http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/registeredcharities/showcharity.asp?remchar=&chyno=1077961

IBSA (holding corporation) http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/registeredcharities/showcharity.asp?remchar=&chyno=216647

I presume that the figures can change quite dramatically from year to year with legacies giving a "lumpy" income stream , but I agree that a loss of 3+ million AUS$ does seem a bit much. Presumably Brooklyn will underwrite any loss.

Annoyingly it is impossible to get up-to-date US figures as certain charities (including religious ones) don't need to publish returns - so much for the land of the free! And by the way , in the UK you don't need to pay for the accounts - and Aussies think the poms are tight!

45

Update Regarding How The May 1 QFR Is "Playing" In The Congregations

by Justitia Themis in

i have been emailing with a sister in my congregation regarding the qfr.

i told her i wasn't discussing it with most jws, because i didn't want to hear any of their "new light" garbage.

i told her this isn't new light; this just means that what we paraded out in 1935 as "new light" was wrong.. she sheepishly (no pun intended) agreed.

dozy

Hardly anyone has mentioned it here other than the "trainspotter" type JWs who love this sort of thing anyway. Then again , hardly anyone ever reads the magazines - only if it was in a study article would it ever be noticed. The WTS must be kicking themselves for not hiding the 1995 "generation change" in a QFR.

Incidentally , it isn't correct that the WTS has worded the 1935 "completed gathering" in fairly general , vague terms. Especially in the late 60's / early 70's before the "replacement" theory was developed by Fred Franz , the wording was very specific.

***
w70 12/1p.732Teaching All Nationalities with a View to Baptism***
Since it appears from the facts that the ones eligible for the heavenly kingdom were for the time completed in number by about 1935

***
w69 7/15p.433par.6 Sacrifices That Are Acceptab leto God***
When it was apparent that the gathering in of all his anointed remnant was completed about 1935,

***
w68 3/1p.147par.27 Rejoicing in the God of True Worship***
the remaining members of the anointed remnant of Christ’s followers were gathered in, particularly until 1931-1935,
question for above paragraph...27, 28. (a) How was the gathering completed, and at what may God’s people now rejoice

***
w70 6/15 p.382 Questions From Readers***
Is
God still selecting individuals to be associated with his Soni n the heavenly kingdom?Or is it the hope of earthly life that all who dedicate themselves to Jehovah have in this day?

Does this mean that, since about 1935, those already resurrected to heaven together with the spirit-begotten remnant yet on earth have made full the number of 144,000? Yes, that is the conclusion to which the evidence points. The general call for such ones has ceased to go out.

14

The 5th trumpet false prophecy by WT$ inc

by cultswatter in

revelation -- it's grand climax at hand chap.

22 pp.

142-148 the first woe--locuststhe first woe--locuststhe fifth angel prepares to blow his trumpet.

dozy

Christendom's clergy were apparently very upset about Beth Sarim...

1942 The New World" (Rutherford)

"the most recent facts show that the religionists of this doomed world are gnashing their teeth because of the testimony which the 'House of the Princes' bears to the new world"

Gnashty people , all of them....

64

Any current Good Standing JW, posting here?

by NotaNess in

i was wondering if there are any current regular posters here that are still active , but are mentally inactive and don't believe all the bull anymore, and are just going through the motions to keep their life with friends and family together.. i realize this might be a posting that will probably get 0 replies, but.......

dozy

Any good standing JW posting here?

I'm sitting down - does that count?

Strangely , JWD helps my "spiritual standing" in the cong. I've discussed the May 1 QFR with a few in the cong & they have all been impressed with my knowledge of Watchtower articles and the development of WTS doctrines (all gleaned from this forum). My introduction is "What do you think of the new thought in the WT" to be met by a blank stare and a mumbled "Oh , I've been so busy - I haven't had time to read the mags yet!" (though they have been offering them in the ministry). One bro told me that he had missed the article and commended me for being a "spiritual type" that gets into these topics.