Posts by uninformed

19

Im only 2 years old :D

by IP_SEC in

jw
friends

two years here.

dont seem like it.

still feel newbish.

uninformed

IP SEC,

Thank you. It is always a pleasure reading your posts. It was nice to meet you last year too at Big Tex's and Cruzenhart.

Brant

33

Ron Frye's book on Elder Confidentiality

by Confession in

i'm still making my way through what is an excellent book by ron frye, former jw and c.o.

i found one of his comments interesting.

on page 68 he speaks affectionately of his wife mavis.... "i especially depended on her because she was observant and discerning.

Your viewpoint is correct. When a person goes to another person with a private or personal issue, it should stop right there. If it became public it could damage people who put trust in the arrangement.

My comment about the broader application of "taking a person to the Congregation" as a final step in trying to resolve personal problems, certainly took out the need for secretiveness and confidentiality.

In the book of James, in the last chapter, it says something to the effect, "Freely confess your sins to one another". In view of that, I think the judicial nature of the body of elders is wrong and is not supported by the Bible. The judicial process is designed, not to restore sinners, but the first consideration is to keep the congregation clean, therefore the elders are not acting in the same manner of Catholic Priests, but rather as "Judges" and Punishers.

So, since the whole process is screwed up, as I look back on it, I wish that I would never have had that horrible power given me, with one exception. I was happy to disfellowship our pedophile presiding overseer. By the way, I didn't hold with confidentially on that one. Anyone that wanted to know, I either told them or let them guess.

I wouldn't abuse confidentiality to protect a horrible person like he was.

Brant

33

Ron Frye's book on Elder Confidentiality

by Confession in

i'm still making my way through what is an excellent book by ron frye, former jw and c.o.

i found one of his comments interesting.

on page 68 he speaks affectionately of his wife mavis.... "i especially depended on her because she was observant and discerning.

uninformed

Gregor wrote:

AK Jeff - On more than one occasion it struck me as ludicrous for a commitee of janitors, auto mechanics and ditch diggers to be setting on matters of other peoples personal problems, mental illness and of course child abuse cases that should have been handled by the law. I have to include myself as one who thought they were capable of counseling people who I now realize were seriously in need of professional mental health counseling.

What a great summary! (I am a bricklayer and agree with you, although I may have a little more discernment than a janitor--

I also wanted to comment that all of us, to a man, broke confidentiality at some time or other, though hopefully not over anything that hurt anyone.

I have a problem with the adoration in the WT toward confidentiality anyway. In the Bible I read, it says that serious issues should be taken "to the congregation" and no 'body of janitors or mechanics' was mentioned. Therefore, probably in the early cong. most of the moral issues were probably of general knowledge, such as the issue that was reported on in Corinth. Not a whole lot of "confidentiality" in Pauls letters!

The Trinity in the Org is, the Faithful and discreet slave, the elders and Confidentiality.

Brant

74

WTS Has Lost +35% of Elders in US Since 1994????

by Seeker4 in

jw
friends

zack, on another thread, said he heard this figure from the platform at both the 2006 elders' school and his recent pioneer school:.

that there were 93,000 elders in 1994, and less than 60,000 today, in the united states.. i thought these figures deserved their own thread, as they are shocking to me, and to see if anyone else has heard anything similar.. i'll post a link to the other thread as well.

.

uninformed

seeker,

I appreciated this thread. Sorry that I missed gary's comment re; the number of congs. I must have missed a page, as I try to read everything he writes.

12,000 congs with 60,000 elders is a real indicator that things are going south.

I resigned in 2000 after 30 years, leaving about 10 left on our body. Of that 10, I know of at least 2 that have since been removed.

That would work in the percentages, but not for move ins or appointments.

u

74

WTS Has Lost +35% of Elders in US Since 1994????

by Seeker4 in

jw
friends

zack, on another thread, said he heard this figure from the platform at both the 2006 elders' school and his recent pioneer school:.

that there were 93,000 elders in 1994, and less than 60,000 today, in the united states.. i thought these figures deserved their own thread, as they are shocking to me, and to see if anyone else has heard anything similar.. i'll post a link to the other thread as well.

.

uninformed

I was wondering for the sake of discussion how many congregations are there in the U.S.

That would make how many elders per congregation?

Brant

54

Da' Colt's and Da' Bears!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by AK - Jeff in

i consider brooke my friend - but two weeks from now i will be rooting against your bears, babe!!!.

what a finish for the colts - bout time.

i have been waiting for them to get to the "show" since they moved to indiana.. go colts!

uninformed

Saints losing hurt me bad.

I quit watching the Colts at half time till my son called me to tell me in the 3rd that they were tied! I had to go back!

WHAT a finish!

U

21

Is the Watchtower happy being stagnant?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

jw
friends

stagnant.

adj.not moving or flowing; motionless.

foul or stale from standing: stagnant ponds.showing little or no sign of activity or advancement; not developing or progressing; inactive: a stagnant economy the sunday talks are copy and paste .the watchtower study is the same.ask the preprinted questions and answer.the ministry school is reading the same parts of the bible.the service program has the same dull presentations.the book study has some books being read 3 - 4 times.. is the watchtower society happy with being stagnant and just going thru the motions?

uninformed

yada- your wrote

I don't think they're happy with it at all. I bet most of the old boys on the GB are scratching their hands, being rather mystified by drying up meeting attendance and zero and negative growth in the Western world. Where's all the 'doves flocking to their dove cotes' and why isn't Jehovah 'speed[ing] it up in its own due time'. It probably explains the weirdness of recent comments to the effect that the Matt 24:14 might be finished already.

I'm sure they'd love to be growing much more quickly. But I think Zico pretty much nailed it when he said they are afraid to change. They've painted themselves into a corner on so many issues that's it's almost impossible to see how they could get out of their stagnancy.

So they're pinning all their hopes on Armageddon coming soon to bail them out of the corner. They are like Alice in Wonderland going down the ever shrinking corridor, and praying there is a door at the end big enough to squeeze through. Unfortunately its more a case that they are up shit creek without a paddle or a life-jacket and the waterfall is looming up large.

Do you really think they believe it themselves?

How close to the top do you have to go to find someone who knows its a scam?

Brant

22

Death of a generation

by onacruse in

terry's thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/127651/1.ashx got me to thinking about this.. one of the characteristics of the wts is to "weather the storm" of a major disappointment, and, as evidenced by the last two major cycles, count on the death (as much in a literal sense as a figurative one) of the generation of jws that went through that debacle...and thence to recommence with the eschatological emphasis as if nothing had happened.. the post-1925 period is perhaps even more exemplative of this than the post-1914 period, because a good many bible students, grasping at every straw to salvage their belief system, swallowed the chronological recalculations and jubilee-cycle antitype interpretations, which extended 1914 to 1925. but 1925 was the last straw for most of them.

it initiated a major revolt among the rank-and-file (and especially the elders...the leaders of "that generation") which haunted the wts for the next 20 years, and a chronological review of the watchtower articles and books during the entire rutherford period shows a preoccupation with vilifying those who dared to remind of that debacle.. with the 50s came a major expansion in the wts, and a consequent dilution of that disillusioned group.

those that were still alive, and who were still jws, had by that time invested so much of their lives into that way of life that...well, how could they find the muster to dump off 40 years of life energy and say, finally, "well, i was wrong, wasn't i?

uninformed

I was baptized in 1961 and my wife in 1959.

We should have left after the 75 debacle.

In 1995, when we got the 'new light' re; the generation, I was the WT conductor and PO. I think that was the article that began my departure. When I was young, due to the incessant references to the 1914 generation, I made up my mind that if they ever changed the date 1914 that I would view that as proof positive that the WT was a false prophet.

But, the way they disconnected the generation from 1914 was done so expertly, that I knew something happened but couldn't put my finger on it. Regardless, I knew that something happened, and I began my slide away. It took 10 more years and the UN thingy to finally cap it, but in June 2005 we finally walked away.

It is a horrible religion, a false prophet and as sly as the devil.

Brant

15

WATCHTOWER beginnings: the neurotic/erotic leader: C.T.Russell

by Terry in

every movement in society, politics or religion begins with the personality and drive of one charismatic man (or woman.).

here is a recap of the birth and transformation of the person and personalities creating the religion now known as jehovah's witnesses.. 1.russell's mother was a scottish presbyterian who filled young charles' head with fear of hell.

being intelligent and sensitive, it electrified his very being with an intellectual struggle to grasp why a loving god would kill him!.

uninformed

I enjoyed reading your thoughts. My take is that you are either exactly right or close. brant

17

Translation of the Greek word "proskuneo"

by bob1999 in

can someone explain why the nwt translates this word as "worship" in 42 of the 60 occurances in the new testament while translating it "do obedience to" in the 18 instances where jesus is the recipient?

this seems so blatantly wrong.

do they think no one will notice or do they have an explanation?

uninformed

narkissos

Good post and nice reasoning. I agree with you. It all goes back to their damn attitude.

Brant