okay, based on my reading, you're clearly better off being one of the 144,000. first, you get to reside in heaven, while everyone else is consigned to living on earth.
second, a spirit (in wts eschatology) is much better than being a flesh and bone human.
they can fly, read in a darkened room and they get to be with god for eternity.. but what of everyone else?
-bator:
The rest of "creation" await the end of 1000 years for the full blessings. Bear in mind that The bible calls the 144,000 the first-fruits which indicates more to come. whether it be heavenly or earthly
If being on a paradise earth was so Bad why did angels come to live on the earth before the flood when it wasn't even a paradise?
My Reply: PLease post the scripture where 144,000 are called the first fruits? They are not. Caught you in another lie Reniaa.
hmmm.
either jehovah god (the perfect god) didn't give that information.
it never was the "truth" in the first place..
Reniaa/Debator said:
The time we were chosen was when Jesus was among us.
This one sentence shows the responsibility toChristians from that point in history.
Luke 12:43
It will be good for that servant whom the master findsdoing so when he returns.
They are doing what the master wants when he finds them..
My reply: You just refuted your own point there Reniaa, assuming Jesus arrived in 1914 to begin inspection. By teh WTS own admission, they were sent away into Babylonish captivity due to wrong practices. Yet they were still practicing these identical wrong practices in 1919- when they claim they were freed and appointed.Why are we given the bible?
Reniaa said:
We will be judge by who actually use it accurately rather than their own unbiblical doctrine.
My reply: And a false prophet with such a tainted record of wrong teachings will be judged favorably?
Reniaa said:
Witnesses use all the Bible it makes us use God's name Jehovah, it makes us preach about his kingdom and actual son Jesus, it makes our shepherds work for us as per bible instruction, it makes us gather together in congregations, it makes us recognise what Jehovah likes and dislikes, it makes us reject the celebrations and culture of the world around us. It makes us pray to Jehovah asking him rather than anyone else. It gives us the answers we need.
My reply:
Witnesses ADD TO the Bible it makes us use God's name Jehovah, THEY ARE FORCED us preach THE WT FALSE PROPHECIES, it makes our shepherds work for THE INTERESTS OF THE ORG, it makes us gather together in congregations, it makes us FEARFUL OF WHAT THE GB likes and dislikes, it makes us reject the celebrations and culture of the world around us SO AS TO MAKE JWS NOT FIT IN WITH THE OUTSIDE WORLD OR HAVE ANY OUTSIDE SUPPORT SYSTEM. It makes us pray to Jehovah BUT NEVER KNOW WHO HE IS. It gives us the answers JWS ARE ALLOWED O KNOW.
i did not sleep well last night.
i tossed and turned until 4 am .
got up and decided to see what was going on.. i am so disappointed in some of you.. simon posted a thread requesting people not post links to the new shepherding book.
A good thing to keep in mind is to ask yourself if you would speak to your spouse or loved one (someone you are trying to free) in the same way as you speak to djeggnog, or debator for that matter. Those we love are no different than those we don't know.
Yes, I would speak to my loved ones the way I speak to them if they acted the way DJ and Debator act. I would expect firm reprimand of ME if I start sounding like them too.
-Sab
I could not agree more!
i think if an (intelligent) questioning jw was able to read the letter about coil binding the book the impact could/should be greater.
this letter should be an embarrassment to the gb.
what blatant and stupid instructions sent to a large group of men who are supposed to be available to instruct in an intelligent way persons coming with an assortment of life's problems.
Agreed. That does wreak of paranoia and sounds very cultlike.
i'm sure the legal, public relations and other depts.
are all asking the gb how to handle this situation.
and i'm convinced the gb is scratching it's head trying to decipher j's spirit direction in all of this.
Although the org is not happy about this book leaking, in reality there is nothing in it that would wake up a questioning JW. It gives the elders a feeling of self-importance to have a secret book, so they would likely feel slighted...and the org likes to maintain that, as well as the persectuion complex. But all issues are created, not real.
hmmm.
either jehovah god (the perfect god) didn't give that information.
it never was the "truth" in the first place..
Reniaa/Debator:
Unbilbical argument.
Being Chosen by Jehovah never made imperfect men perfect or without mistakes. Which they continued to do despite being chosen.
Jehovah has always allowed humans a certain autonomy with regards to freewill and occasionally we go to far and make mistakes. The bible is there to straighten out these mistakes that will happen.
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
If God could just reach and zap us into getting everything right we would not need the bible.
My reply: Reniaa, why did Jesus select the WT as his steward to handle his earthly affairs when they were still practicing the identical things that got them sent away into Babylonish captivity in 1918? Why did he free them, let alone promote them?
this is one of the top thought stopping phrases here.. it invalidates any argument presented against the organization.
it basically says this:.
"it doesn't matter who did what in the org, it doesn't matter how bad things get, we are the only ones doing what jesus did, therefore all errors and corruption are disregarded as we await the end.".
Reniaa:
How do I know Jehovah's witnesses are Jehovah's people I recognise them by the works that their faith inspires.
My reply:
Their works are inspired by faith in man...not God...shown by the spirit in which their works are done.
humans are unique.
each one is unique in his/her own regard.
like your thumbprint, your life is unlike any life in existence.. .
No Mary, only real JWs do that!
i'm new to the forum, though i had been a lurker for quite some time now.
i studied w/ the witnesses for a number of years, to be specific, for 10 years (since i was a child) but never actually became one; though, i was counted as one in the yearbooks as a "publisher.
" so, as far as i got was as an unbaptized publisher.
Reniaa/Debator said:
Nice sounding but unbiblical. The Bible makes a point of naming 144,000 as a specific group of kings and priests to rule over mankind as co-heirs with Jesus.
My reply: The Bible does NOT say that 144,000 rule as kings and priests!
humans are unique.
each one is unique in his/her own regard.
like your thumbprint, your life is unlike any life in existence.. .
Hey, didn't the Watchtower celebrate its 100th birthday!
