Posts by Check_Your

31

Hint of disillusionment among bethelites regarding downsizing?

by watch the tower in

here is an email i got from a jw friend regarding the downsizing.. can you sense the uneasiness in the last part of the message?.

"bros vandewall, jaracz, pierce and weaver gave a talk.

to the bethelites after the watchtower study monday.

Check_Your_Premises

Does anyone know how many people we are talking here?

CYP

59

What MUST Jw's believe that they don't KNOW they believe?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i'm looking for beliefs of jw's that have the consequence of also requiring some other belief that they may not like or be able to explain.. for instance, you probably believe that there are an infinite number of numbers, since you can always add 1 to any number and make a new one.. what you may not think about as a consequence of that belief is that you can also start with 2, add 2, and create an infinite series of even numbers.

the set of even numbers is infinite, and the set of whole numbers (which would fully encompass the even numbers) is also infinite.

so which set is bigger?

Check_Your_Premises

Bravo. Nice question. I must say you are outdoing min latley with all your questions. His are more therapeutic. Yours are probing the internal contradictions of the jw mind.

How about this one. Since any dub, once successfully confronted with the faulty logic of the scriptural basis for the blood doctrine, will then say "well I need to put my faith in God's arrangement or I risk my chance for eternal life" or some such gibberish. Do they realize by saying that, they are effectively saying there is nothing they won't do that the org commands.

Lie

Cheat

Murder

Rape

Pillage

Molest chilren

Give your kid cyanide laced kool-aid

They must obey God's arrangement.

If you said that to them, they would likely say "it isn't in the Bible", now if you just whacked with the blood thing, you can say, "well neither is the ban on blood transfusions". In all fairness, I don't think most dubs would do the above if it came out in the WT next week.

But some would.... think about it.

CYP

15

New Tradition around here: How to handle disfellowshipping commitees

by Check_Your_Premises in

jw
friends

i asked richie to do this, but he didn't get df'd... he got his priveleges reinstated!!!

anyone who remembers that one knows that richie came up with about the funniest picture anyone has ever posted here.

anyway.... i really want to start a collection here.

Check_Your_Premises

I asked Richie to do this, but he didn't get df'd... he got his priveleges reinstated!!! Anyone who remembers that one knows that Richie came up with about the funniest picture anyone has ever posted here. Anyway...

I really want to start a collection here. Say you are in the JC. You are acting all sad and scared and repentant. Then, right when they say you are df'd;

1. Pull out a digital camera

2. Utter some insult that you have pretty much always wanted to say to these clowns. Ask here if you need some ideas for a good insult.

3. At that moment, snap a picture of 'em. The expressions on their faces will be hilarious. The moment captured will be right when they were basking most in their power, and then suddenly they were humiliated and neutered. That is the moment you could capture. I think it would just be priceless!!!

4. Post said picture here for us to giggle our guts out over.

32

New year, new place, new life - ITIS and Freedomlover

by freedomlover in

jw
friends

if you have followed our story you know we were moving out of state to start over and get away from tons of extended jw family.. we are officially moved.

hundreds of miles away from our old life.

as i write this, i feel numb, cold, and very raw.

Check_Your_Premises

Congrats FL and ITIS!!!

I love you guys so much. I hope the move went off ok, as much as is possible I guess.

Take some time now and ...

...RELAX

CYP

43

What JW's are saying regarding the downsizing at Bethel

by jimbob in

jw
friends

i haven't posted anything for a while on jwd due to being busy with work and school, but this email was to much of a crack up not to post.

this was sent to my wife today from her old jw friend.

she forwarded it to me and i'm posting it with her permission.

Check_Your_Premises

should we apply that Scripture ( Not trusting Nobles) to them? I think not.

Are you saying that the WT is the same as Bible? It is the inspired word of God? Are you saying the JW are a prophet?

Are you saying we should put our conscience aside when God's ORGANIZATION does something we disagree with, or we think goes against God's will? Is there any example in the Bible where such behavior is condoned/accepted/rewarded by God?

For example, did God reward the faithful sheep who followed Aaron (God's faithful and discreet slave since Moses was busy at the time), in making a golden calf?

When Jesus arrived, God's ORGANIZATION conspired to kill him. Judas obeyed God's ORGANIZATION and betrayed Jesus. Was his obedience to His ORGANIZATION against His wishes rewarded or punished? Help me out. I forget?

CYP

33

Hi ~ new here...

by Riverwatcher in

jw
friends

i'm so happy to have found this site.

i'm not a j/w, but my son is.

several years ago, he became involved with a j/w, although she was being shunned at the time.

Check_Your_Premises

RW,

Looks like you have been given a broad range of advice and info. You have a lot to chew on. Be sure to give us an update in a couple of weeks or so.

CYP

33

Hi ~ new here...

by Riverwatcher in

jw
friends

i'm so happy to have found this site.

i'm not a j/w, but my son is.

several years ago, he became involved with a j/w, although she was being shunned at the time.

Check_Your_Premises

With all due respect to Mr. Van Gogh, I don't recommend Crisis of Conscience as a first read. It is a VERY good book if you are a JW. But I have heard other non-jw's, and from my own personal experience, that COC is kind of hard to follow if you aren't/weren't ever a dub.

First thing you need to do is keep the trust built up with your son.

Second learn about cults. Helping someone out of a cult is a process, and not simply a matter of finding information to refute his belief system. You have to understand that mind control does not allow rational thought processes to penetrate the protective wall of the cult identity.

Next, learn about the JW. I am not sure what is the best choice here for an outsider. I sure haven't read a better one then COC. But there are hundreds of pages that left me with a ? One that isn't to bad for building an argument against the WT being divinely chosen is Captives of a Concept. It has a tight line of reasoning and relies only on JW literature to make it's case. That is nice because you can literally spend years unraveling the JW web of lies. Look for what has the mosts bang for the buck and will matter most to your son. You will find that the WT has been extremely arrogant over the years, and said a great many silly things. There is a site that is dedicated to simply quoting the WT, www.reexamine.org

Some more good info sites are freeminds.org, ajwrb.org, silentlambs.org, brci.org, jwreform.org...

Go to the hall with him. He will just be ecstatic! Meet the folks at the hall. Ask them about their personal lives. Don't let them put you in a charicature. He will try to get you to start a study, try to avoid that!

That ought to keep you busy.

Spend plenty of time here asking questions. Try to enlist other family members. What is the status of her family?

And if you are a Christian, pray. Alot!

CYP

33

Hi ~ new here...

by Riverwatcher in

jw
friends

i'm so happy to have found this site.

i'm not a j/w, but my son is.

several years ago, he became involved with a j/w, although she was being shunned at the time.

Check_Your_Premises

Just adding to what Dave said;

Everything is based on trust. If he doesn't trust you, he won't talk to you. Dubs are teachers, never students. The way to get him to talk to you is to ask questions about his faith in a genuinely interested way. Once you have good trust, you can then ask him questions that might challenge or alter his perspective.

So sorry.

CYP

33

Hi ~ new here...

by Riverwatcher in

jw
friends

i'm so happy to have found this site.

i'm not a j/w, but my son is.

several years ago, he became involved with a j/w, although she was being shunned at the time.

Check_Your_Premises

Welcome aboard.

Sorry about your situation. You will find that you are in good company here. Most are former jw's here, but many are like non-jw with loved ones in the org.

There is hope!

A couple of books for you to get are Combatting Cult Mind Control and Releasig the Bonds, both by Steven Hassan.

They are "help your loved one out of a cult" manuals. Hang out here. Ask questions. And eventually hopefully you can start helping your son to have a different perspective.

Take care.

CYP

43

"Where else are we to go?" - How to answer?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

hey guys,.

assume you're talking to a faithful, indoctrinated jw that is only now getting some doubts rolling in his head.

let's say that he doesn't have much info yet, hasn't done much research, and is pretty scared of anything that smells "apostate".

Check_Your_Premises

Sometimes it isn't so much WHAT you say, but when and how you say it.

I have found the most damage I have done to the cult mindset is when I am almost apologetic for my statement.

Also the dub goes through natural eb and flow. WHen they are regularly spending countless hours out in service, or studying ALL of the pubs, and taking notes, and .... they are flowing.

Wait for them to get tired. Wait for them to tell you about the things that bother them. If they trust you, they will. A glass of wine helps get them out of dub mode also. Or even just talking while doing normal things like shopping. (plus they can't scream and yell in public)

You can come up with the greatest zinger in the world. If their defenses are up you might as well just scream at a rock.

CYP

Check_Your_Premises

Posts by Check_Your_Premises