Well done. Just one thing to add here that never occurred until it was pointed out today. Namely that the GB is a form of the Apostolic Succession claim to authority claimed by the Beast in Rome. The Beast and it's image.
Babylon II and III.
Matthew 23:15 - "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are."
Posts by freyd
-
32AN OPEN LETTER TO THE GOVERNING BODY OF JEHOVAHS WITNESSES
by AK - Jeff inan open letter to the governing body of jehovahs witnesses.
dear sirs -.
most likely you and your pundits follow carefully this site and others like it on the internet.
-
-
freyd
-
26
FLU SHOTS
by REBORNAGAIN inanyone allergic to them (if you're allergic to eggs, avoid them please).. i'm getting mine for the 15th year in a row come saturday.
haven't had a flu during the past 15 years.
linda.
-
-
freyd
Well, we've all got to go sooner or later and I'd rather go sooner. Maybe the flu will get me.
-
-
-
freyd
Tell me, what is the scriptural basis for a closed door judicial committee?
-
21
Were We Members of a Religion or Free Labor for a Publishing Company?
by journey-on inall the talk of legal ramifications got me thinking about this one.
your thoughts?.
-
-
freyd
IMHO it was a religion that came to be run by businessmen and lawyers. The religion was faulty to begin with. But then it merged with business. Much like what happened when an adulterated form of Christianity merged with pagan Rome. What went forth was not the truth. Ergo, Babylon II. But now that you've all been freed, like the slaves after the Civil War, and there's no place to go. Many paint Russell and the Bible Students with the same brush as Rutherford and the jw's. But that's emotionalism and ignorance. It all began when Judge Rutherford implemented his mind control tactics to solidify his power when he made a decree that all those at Bethel could have no dealings with those who had left in response to his hostile and illegal take over and changed what Br Russell had taught. This was the beginning of the shunning policy. But if there is any consolation, it is that their man of sin, their founder, judge Rutherford, is being revealed to all the world via the internet. I realize that doesn't undo the damage of lost families and other personal tragedies. And neither does hate. Again, imho, there's only one thing that can. I believe Jesus died, not just as a ransom for the forgiveness of Adamic sin, but also it's consequences. If a person would apply the merit of the blood it may allow them to release those whom they hold accountable. Luke 6:37b
-
14
-How did you envision the FDS and GB did their work?
by Awakened07 inthe weird thing is - i almost can't recall what i once believed about the fds and gb ["faithful and discreet slave" and "governing body"], who they in fact were, and how they came to their conclusions and 'revelations'.. come to think of it, i think that was because i was conditioned to not ever question them, because to question them would be to question the organization, and to question the organization was to question jesus and jehovah.. but i've been trying to 'dig into' my brain to see if i can remember how i as an active jw saw them:.
- i believed them to be inspired, just not in the same 'degree' (?
) as the biblical writers were.
-
-
freyd
"The FDS (Faithful and Discreet Slave) is taught by the WTS....."--QUOTE--awakened
I think that about says it. -
46
I need some serious informational help from EVERYONE!
by Thedirtysecret ini am new here and i joined honestly to collect information to understand something a little better.
my boyfriend, well-now kinda boyfriend (were at a weird place) is a jehovah's witness and i am not.
he waited a little "far" into our relationship to tell me he was, which created a mess, honestly an emotional dyfunctional mess.
-
-
freyd
It's true.
-
34
A coup against the Watchtower?
by Dead Man Joaquin ini believe that if enough "anointed" get fed up with the hypocrisy of the leadership, a coup may be likely if not inevitable.. .
what i've been wondering is: how would such a scenario play out in real life?
i'm sure we can agree that all the organizational power ultimately rests in the hands of the eleven little men in brooklyn known collectively as the governing body.
-
-
freyd
In the 1st century the prospective anointed followed Christ. They didn't try to reform anything. "Get out of her my people."
Songs in the Night
Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honor preferring one another. Romans 12:10
"THE truth seems to take hold on the stronger characters rather than on the weaker ones. The former have in their flesh more of the firmness, grittiness, and combativeness than have many others, who are too pliable and "wishy-washy" to be acceptable to the Lord as members of the "little flock" of overcomers. Thus we see that the very quality which makes us acceptable to the Lord and which is one qualification of the overcoming position, is a serious disadvantage in some respects, when a number of these come together as a church. Even a diamond surrounded by mud would cut nothing, would scratch nothing; but place a dozen diamonds together, and the more you get rid of the mud element the more gritting, scouring, and cutting there is likely to be. So it is with the Lord's jewels--the more they come together, the more they get wakened up, the more opportunities there will be for friction, and the greater necessity there will be that all be thoroughly imbedded in and covered with the Holy Spirit, which, like oil, is smooth and unctuous and tends to prevent friction." Z'12-99 R4995:5 -
39
What is the key that unlocks the mental grip of the WT?
by LennyinBluemont inive wondered this from time to time, especially in trying to figure out how i finally broke free and in looking at the stories of others.
if you asked me a few years ago, i probably would have said either seeing too much hypocrisy or suffering the last straw of spiritual and/or emotional abuse.
but i know in my case and others, even that wasnt enough to break the mental shackles.
-
-
freyd
The meetings are obviously the reinforcement mechanism. I don't think you can go to a meeting without hearing Heb 10:24-25 quoted. But try quoting 1 Cor 11:17 "In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good." NIV But the meetings are the grip. What breaks it? I don't believe it's acknowledging abuse or doctrinal inconsistencies or hypocrisy. What finally breaks the grip, to either leave or refuse to be a guinea pig any longer by staying for the sake of relatives is the realization that no elder can be trusted, whether you openly acknowledge it or whether it's just at a gut level, that they're all wolves in sheep's clothing. All the other stuff is pretty much put on the back burner as long as you haven't had the tacit trust relationship broken. You can feel that some elders aren't trust worthy, but when it finally hits home that none of them are, I believe that's what releases the trap, whether it's conscious or unconscious. If you stay, you're immune to the indoctrination. If you leave, good riddance. That's not to say that by leaving that there aren't other issues, because you made a full committment. You're all in as they say in poker. There are damage issues, and separation issues that have long term effects so you have to hold to your integrity, otherwise, it's like JR Ewing said, "Get rid of integrity and the rest is easy." David had to flee into the wilderness from Saul. But he kept his integrity. The society would have people believe that everybody who leaves also abandons their integrity and further wants people to believe that everybody who's gone was kicked out. They don't like it when people just up and walk. But the best revenge is success. Well maybe the 2nd best. If you meet dubs on the street and especially elders and they see you are doing well, it has to be unsettling. When a person is df'd the elders revel is the suffering they see afterward. But when you smile and walk away it has to just fracture them. Like pouring hot coals on their heads. Read Rev 12:13-17
-
30
Does Fading from the Borg Lead to Deceit in Other Walks of Life?
by ThomasCovenant inplease, please remember i am asking a question, not stating a fact.. .
there appears to be many advantages to fading out of the 'truth' as opposed to a full blown "i don't believe it and i'm out of here regardless of consequences'' policy.. reading others postings and experiences here and my own local experiences i can truly see why many do so.
i remember during the later stages of my still attending meetings talking to a couple who had stopped going to meetings a few years before.
-
-
freyd
Look at the Jews. When they held to the Law, everything worked fine. When they abandoned the Law, everything went to pot.
-
14
Why the Governing Body Calls Us "Apostates"
by t33ap80c inwhy the governing body calls us "apostates".
in their article about "propaganda" the governing body explains that one of the "tricks and tactics" that "cunning propagandists" use is "name-calling".
"name-calling slaps anegative, easy-to-remember label onto a person, a group, or an idea.
-
-
freyd
http://web.archive.org/web/19990210053357/home.sol.no/~jansh/wteng/gbinterview.htm
Interview of a Member of the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses
By Michael
[We have been asked to keep his identity secret, he will only be referred to as GBM]
US: Thanks for taking time to be interviewed, you don’t do this often
GBM: We tend to be ridiculed by the media
US: Gee, I wonder why?
GBM: See, you’re doing it
US: Sorry, I just thinking out loud
GBM: Try to respect us as much as we respect you
US: [Laughing]
GBM: Are you mocking me?
US: No, no, not at all. Its just that you don’t seem to respect anyone, other than yourselves
GBM: That’s because we have the TRUTH
US: I see… could you explain how you came to have the "truth"?
GBM: Jesus chose us in 1918
US: Why?
GBM: Because of all the religions in the world only we were preaching about 1914
US: And…
GBM: And, Jesus returned in 1914. Although we thought he came back in 1874, we were preaching about 1914.
US: Weren’t you preaching that the "end of all kingdoms" or the end of the world in 1914
GBM: Yes, I didn’t say anything we were preaching about 1914 was true, but we were the only ones preaching it.
US: So you were chosen as the channel of truth because you were wrong?
GBM: No, because we were right
US: What were you right about
GBM: The year 1914, Jesus returned then
US: I thought you said that Jesus returned in 1874
GBM: He did, I mean, we thought he did, but he corrected us
US: When did he "correct" you
GBM: The light got brighter on that in 1943
US: The light???
GBM: Yes, you see the light gets brighter and brighter
US: Oh so you were writing without the lights on, that certainty explains some of the weird stuff you’ve written
GBM: Not the "lights", the "light" as in "new light"
US: So you bought new bulbs….
GBM: No, new light is a spiritual thing it has nothing to do with lights
US: Where does this new light come from
GBM: Jesus gives it to us
US: How
GBM: He guides us
US: How does he guide you
GBM: He corrects his slave, just as he did with the apostles
US: I will come back to the slave thing in a minute, so Jesus talks to you
GBM: No, no, no. You’re mocking me.
US: No I’m not, I am just trying to understand how Jesus corrects you
GBM: When we feel something needs changing, we change it
US: Yes, but how is Jesus involved in this
GBM: Jehovah guides us with his holy spirit
US: Why are you being so vague on this? How do you receive this divine guidance, do you have dreams or visions, a voice from heaven, or what?
GBM: No all that stuff is from Satan. When God wants us to change we change, its just that simple.
US: Forgive me for asking this again, but, how does God do that?
GBM: I already told you, he guides us
US: Yes, but you have never said how God guides you
GBM: I think you’re asking all these questions because you are opposed
US: So you can’t tell me how God guides you
GBM: Its just to deep for you to understand
US: Oh, its deep all right…
GBM: See, you mock what you don’t understand
US: I’m trying to understand, you’re just not answering the question
GBM: Look, I know a lot more than you do and even I don’t understand it
US: So you’re sure God is guiding you, you’re just not sure how?
GBM: Exactly
US: Okay, so tell us about this "slave" thing
GBM: Jesus prophesied in Matt 24:45 that upon his return he would find a faithful and discreet slave doing the masters bidding and he would place him over all his belongings. So in 1918 he appointed us over all his belongings
US: But didn’t you say that you were wrong about 1874 and 1914? Why would Jesus pick you and why did he take 3 years to do it?
GBM: I’ve already told you he picked us because we were the only ones on earth looking forward to 1914
US: But what you were looking forward to was wrong
GBM: Yes, but the year was right
US: So you were right because you were wrong
GBM: Yes… I mean no, we were right that the year was significant we just didn’t understand it
US: Huh?
GBM: We understood that 1914 was marked in Bible prophecy
US: But you were wrong about everything that was supposed to happen in that year, correct?
GBM: But we were pointing to that year and we were vindicated when WWI broke out
US: How’s that?
GBM: It was a turning point in history, and we were right about that
US: Not really, you predicted the end of the world, not a world war
GBM: The end of the world is a turning point in history! So we were right, in a sense.
US: Or in a nonsense…Okay, tell us why it took Jesus 3 ? years to pick you
GBM: He had to go over all the religions in the world while fighting a war with Satan, can you do two things at once? Huh, can you, can you? No you can’t neither could Jesus.
US: I suppose he could delegate….
GBM: You’re mocking again. He couldn’t delegate because he had to read them all himself
US: Jesus never heard of Evelyn Wood’s Speed Reading, I guess
GBM: Jesus can speed read, but it still took a long time, what with all the religions in the world
US: He didn’t just rule out the non-Christian ones from the get-go
GBM: No, for all he knew the Faithful and Discreet Slave could have been the Buddhists
US: Sounds like heaven could use some drug testing
GBM: There you go again, mocking me. This is why I don’t do interviews.
US: I’m sorry, but it is a little ridiculous to say that Jesus, who performed miracles, would have to take three years to read all the religious writings in the world
GBM: Well that’s what happened
US: If you say so….
GBM: We most definitely say so! That’s how we know its true, because Jehovah revealed it through his channel of communication
US: I thought you were his channel of communication
GBM: Well, the organization is yes
US: So you know what you say is true because you say it
GBM: Yes, in a manner of speaking
US: But haven’t you said many embarrassingly wrong things?
GBM: We don’t claim to be perfect
US: Well that would be a stupid thing to claim, wouldn’t it
GBM: We are not inspired prophets
US: I was unaware that there was such a thing as an uninspired prophet
GBM: As I was saying, we are not inspired by the holy spirit, just guided by it
US: What’s the difference?
GBM: If you’re inspired you can’t be wrong, if you’re guided you can
US: I see…but how can you tell the difference between a false prophet and a non-inspired non-prophet that is guided by the holy spirit. Don’t they both predict things that won’t happen?
GBM: Actually, most people think a false prophet is one that prophecies falsely
US: Like God, for example
GBM: Ahem, but such is not the case, a false prophet is someone that believes in the Trinity
US: Imagine my suprise
GBM: Well of course you’re suprised, the churches of Christendom just don’t teach this to people
US: But doesn’t the Bible define a false prophet as one that predicts something that doesn’t happen?
GBM: Again, this is too deep for you, but there are cases of prophets predicting things that didn’t happen, like Jonah for example, so therefore false prophecy has nothing to do with prophesying falsely, it has to do with believing in the Trinity and hell fire.
US: That’s amazing
GBM: What, learning the truth
US: No, that you can say that with a straight face
GBM: Mocker, this interview is over
US: Wait, wait, can’t I just ask a few more questions
GBM: Okay, but you better change your attitude, why can’t you ask easy questions like "Where did Cain get his wife?"
US: Mail order bride?
GBM: No, he married his sister
US: People in West Virginia carry on that tradition, but back to JW’s…I would like to talk about prophecy for a minute
GBM: Oh boy here comes the boring "false prophecy" list put out by apostates and opposers
US: No, I think those quotes speak for themselves, I want to talk about the seven seals of Revelation
GBM: That is a very deep subject
US: I’ll do my best to keep up with you. So is it true that you claim that the seven trumpets of where seven resolutions at seven assemblies from 1922-1928? If this is so, why doesn’t anyone, other than a few JW’s that have to look it up, even know what the resolutions are?
GBM: Because of the conspiracy of silence on the part of the world’s news media
US: So God needs the media?
GBM: No, he doesn’t that’s why he used us to blast forth the bold symbolic trumpet messages
US: Without looking them up, what where these messages?
GBM: I don’t recall off hand, but some of our cartoons from the thirties were also judgment messages from Jehovah
US: I have often felt that "Garfield" was a stinging judgment message from Jehovah against cat owners
GBM: That’s it, this interview is over
US: Perhaps we could talk again
GBM: Maybe, but you’re not really an "interested one."
US: Thank you for your time, I am certain that you have helped people come to a conclusion about Jehovah’s Witnesses
GBM: All the answers to your questions can be found on our Web Page at www.watchtower.org.*
US: I thought it was blank
GBM: It is, that’s all the answers we have.go back to first page