Posts by TheListener

64

I'm new here

by Keeli in

this seemed like a likely place to introduce myself.

i live in oregon and was disfellowshipped a couple of years ago.

i never went back to meetings and i don't intend to go back.

TheListener

Welcome Keeli. I'm glad you're moving on with your life and look forward to your input on the board.

23

Possible New news

by why144000 in

jw
friends

there has been a lot of discussion regarding some 'news' to be released later in the year.

i have no inside whispers however i think that, if something new happens, it will be in regard to 'faders'.

many of us have faded and not attended meetings for some time.

Rockhound, I like your idea - because it's nice. But, the Society isn't in the business of nice. They are in the business of placing WT and AW and books. If they remove the pressure for that type of witnessing work their number of placements will drop instantly. They can't afford to not move the merchandise. Although I agree, they should review Ray Franz's article from the late '70s about sacred service and how encompassing it really is.

I think the new light will have to do with inactivity. It's a simple matter to say anyone who is not active is not a Jehovah's Witness. The main thrust of being a witness is supposed to be preaching the word. So, if you're not preaching then you're not a Jehovah's Witness (I'm sure exceptions will be made for those who are mentally ill or infirmed).

IMHO this will not halve the number of witnesses. Most witnesses go out at some point during the month even if it is just for one hour. Most witnesses who don't go out know enough to report one hour.

Don't forget, it takes 6 months to become inactive. Until then you're irregular. That gives the elders plenty of time to bring you back before you become inactive.

19

Arminianism

by TheListener in

what are the similarities and differences between arminiansim and jw's?.

one key similarity i've found is that in arminianism a certain few are chosen by god for salvation.

seems similar to the 144,000 doctrine.

TheListener

Narkissos,

I can see what you mean about setting pelegianism aside. It seems that pelegianism is very narrow in scope. The main (and apparently only?) doctrine being that man can work for his own salvation with God without the need of Christ's ransom sacrifice (which was merely a good example;as adam was a poor example).

Whereas arminiansim seems to envelop several key doctrines rather than resting on one. It really seems that the witnesses are not alone in being arminians but for the most part all non-calvinist protestant religions fall mostly under arminianism.

Also, it just seems to me that the witnesses are very very arminianistic (I think I made that word up) and even take arminianism to the extreme; as discussed in an earlier post.

Little Toe,

I remember some time ago you said you leaned toward calvinistic thinking. I know you added in some other theological names as well, but, I have a question. What arminian doctrines would a Calvinist most likely not agree with (I know not everyone is the same so generalities would be fine)?

19

Arminianism

by TheListener in

what are the similarities and differences between arminiansim and jw's?.

one key similarity i've found is that in arminianism a certain few are chosen by god for salvation.

seems similar to the 144,000 doctrine.

TheListener

I can't thank you enough Narkissos for bearing with me (again).

Let's see if I get this right: In pelegiansim and arminianism God forsees and knows and is prescient that certain individuals will have faith and be justified/sanctified.

In Augustinianism and Calvinism God CAUSES ones to have faith and become justified/sanctified.

That is a big difference and I see how the witnesses fall under the category of pelegianism.

Follow up question. I'm sure that I learned that a major difference between Presbyterians and Methodists is just this point, predestination. Did God forechoose individuals or did he just have knowledge of certain individuals. Presbyterians believe in God forechoosing certain ones and Methodists believe in God foreknowing certain ones would be saved.

Why does this have to be so hard and why do we have to use such long and difficult words.

350

Called JR Brown regarding Cano Pedophile situation

by LDH in

just called their media line:.

http://www.jw-media.org/contact.htm.

asked a young man named bryce where is the official press release on the cano pedophile situation.

TheListener

Wow ldh. That was incredible.

82

Latest News In JW Sex Scandal

by Kenneson in

it's the top news at http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_178173758.html .

see "boy in minister sex scandal speaks to cbs.

investigators compiling mountain of evidence against suspect.

TheListener

Lots of congregations, at least in the US, have pc's for the publishers to use. They aren't connected to the internet though. Just to use for searching the cdrom. I say lots of congregations, not all congregations.

19

Arminianism

by TheListener in

what are the similarities and differences between arminiansim and jw's?.

one key similarity i've found is that in arminianism a certain few are chosen by god for salvation.

seems similar to the 144,000 doctrine.

TheListener

I read about pelagianism on wikipedia.

From my understanding it teaches that there is no original sin. Therefore mankind can come directly to God and work out their salvation.

As a witness I didn't believe in "original sin" so to speak but I believed that Adam and Eve (Adam really) lost the ability for themselves and all of us to approach God directly and we had to wait for Jesus and his ransom sacrifice to buy us back from sin.

However, now that I think about it, it does seem odd that pre-Jesus people could be friends of God if the original sin took away that possibility. It seems like another contradiction. They believe in original Adamic sin but also believe that some prior to Jesus were able to be friends of God without an intermediary.

As usual I'm confused.

19

Arminianism

by TheListener in

what are the similarities and differences between arminiansim and jw's?.

one key similarity i've found is that in arminianism a certain few are chosen by god for salvation.

seems similar to the 144,000 doctrine.

TheListener

Narkissos, or anyone really,

Is there an older theology that teaches the two destinations - heavenly and earthly?

Do Calvinists and Arminianists believe the earth will be destroyed and all who God selected or selected themselves will be spirit creatures with God?

19

Arminianism

by TheListener in

what are the similarities and differences between arminiansim and jw's?.

one key similarity i've found is that in arminianism a certain few are chosen by god for salvation.

seems similar to the 144,000 doctrine.

TheListener

Narkissos, you wrote:

TL,
I think among the doctrines you ascribe to arminianism the following are wrong:
in arminianism a certain few are chosen by God for Salvation.
Arminians believe in certain select few predestined to be saved and to become sons of God, glorified.
Arminians, imo, believe in indefinite expiation (potentially for all), collective election and predestination (the church is chosen and predestined to salvation, not its individual members), and conditional salvation (only those who choose not to resist the Holy Spirit and become believers will eventually be saved). They disagree on whether one can "lose one's salvation" after becoming a believer.
Iow, the JW "two-class" system cannot be traced back to arminianism.

Here is what I found online about that subject from http://www.albatrus.org/english/theology/reformed/table_arminianism_versus_calvinism.htm I am open that I understand this wrongly. I am really trying to understand arminianism and how the witnesses fall under it. But, I will say LTs post about how the witnesses are a hodge podge of various type of theology seems really true. Conditional Election
God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world was based upon His foreseeing that they would respond to His call. He selected only those whom He knew would of themselves freely believe the gospel. Election therefore was determined by or conditioned upon what man would do. The faith which God foresaw and upon which He based His choice was not given to the sinner by God (it was not created by the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit) but resulted solely from man's will. It was left entirely up to man as to who would believe and therefore as to who would be elected unto salvation. God chose those whom He knew would, of their own free will, choose Christ. Thus the sinner's choice of Christ, not God's choice of the sinner, is the ultimate cause of salvation.

38

Breaking News - JW Arrested

by NYCkid in

"police in middletown are accusing 50-year-old minister jesus cano, a jehovah's witness, of trying to lure young boys for sex with nude pictures of himself, which he'd printed with his phone number.

i believe he is/was a bethelite at the wt farms.

saw it on my local evening news.. http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_177180721.html.

TheListener

Exactly Sir82. How many photos did this pervert take of youngsters at the Kingdom Hall? How many photos or videos did the upstanding example of a christian take when he was responsible for young ones in the field ministry? None? Perhaps, but time will tell.

Would you have had any problem with a bethelite taking your 9,10 or 11 year old son in service? I wouldn't have.

I am disgusted. I hope cnn, fox, msnbc and others pick this up.