Christ Alone, holy guacamole! I had forgotten about that! Yes, it's true. However, I distinctly rememer the elevator ride. I also remember that when I moved to the Farm in Wallkill Co., I had to get a dispensation to ride the elevator due to a foot injury. Was there a limit in Brooklyn to the floor level or where there some other exceptions? Man, I'm feel nostalgic wishing I could still climb 7 flights of stairs again.
Posts by Etude
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68Have you met anyone on the Governing Body?
by Christ Alone ini posted on another thread about a couple of my experiences of meeting the governing body while i was in brooklyn.
i wanted to see if anyone else had any experiences along these same lines.
i met most of the ones that were current during the 2001-2003 years.
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64
I Do Not Think Everyone That is a JW Wastes Their Life
by Magwitch inmy 97 year old grandmother died last week.
she was actually born and raised a jw.
her mother (my great grandmother) was a russelite.
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Etude
I'm a bit late into this, but found all the discussion very interesting. It made me think how far back and how widely we would impose our blame on people to the point of not being forgiving. If anyone thinks for a minute that it's only the Jdubs that have caused so much pain and are therefore responsible as individuals, think again. If we apply that view everywhere, we would condemn with the same intensity the majority of the world's population who adhere to one belief or another, religious or not. Yes, it's likely that we all bear some responsibility for inflicting some pain on others, whether we realize it or not. In fact, I know that (if we were all ex-JWs), we will never shake our personal responsibility for the people we converted, or the people we shunned, or the people we so self-righteously condescended upon -- that means you jookbeard and anyone else who still blames those others that stayed in. We should condemn the act or belief and not the individuals.
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68
Have you met anyone on the Governing Body?
by Christ Alone ini posted on another thread about a couple of my experiences of meeting the governing body while i was in brooklyn.
i wanted to see if anyone else had any experiences along these same lines.
i met most of the ones that were current during the 2001-2003 years.
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Etude
I met Fred and Raymond Franz, although I really knew Raymond much better. Also, Dan Sydlic and Nathan Knorr. I had decided that I admired Fred Franz due to a story someone told me about him riding in an elevator and singing "Jingle Bells". Everyone was surprised because it was considered a Christmas song. Somehow he explained that there was not one reference in the song about Christmas. I thought: "Well, that's unbiased thinking and a bit out-of-the-box", hence my admiration. Later, I came to realize that he was protected and revered by Knorr for his biblical interpretations. I point to him as the main protagonist for starting the 1975/Armageddon speech that cause so much grief. He is the main reason Knorr wanted all Bethelites to remain single, something he did not prescribe for himself.
Raymond was a dear man. I could sense his dedication and even some cautiousness when dealing with some subjects. He endeavored to be knowledgeable. My impression was that in most instances, his wife Cynthia was reserved and relatively quiet compared to him. But I could also tell that she was no slouch and was very intelligent.
I thought that Dan Sydlic was a good guy. But, I watched him revel a little at the fact that he became much more significant after Knorr was not in charge anymore and the Governing Body, of which he became a member of, took over.
Knorr was a tyrant and an ass. He gave a few of us "new boys" a condescending look while riding in an elevator as we talked about the experience of the first night watch at the Squibb building. It's possible that we were overly enthusiastic, but I didn't think it deserved the scowling look. I thought he would understand our situation being new and ignorant. I don't know how many others noticed it or even if they were aware that he was in the elevator, but I sure as hell did. It turns out he had very specific ideas of how a bethelite should act.
On another occasion, he gave me a "killer" look (I think that but for the briefness of the occurrence he would have turned around a said something to me). I was rushing on a Saturday morning from the Towers Hotel (back before it was purchased and renovated) to take a call from a family member at the main building. In those days, the Bethel front desk would get a call and they would have to make another call to the "Towers" desk who would in turn ring the hall phone (we only had a few floors then) and someone would come knocking at your door. I ran out of the Towers Hotel and was still trying to put my coat on as I reached the front of the 107 building. As we passed each other, Knorr gave me a disapproving scowl, which I duly noted. I think that if he had turned around and said something to me, I would have unloaded on him, despite the consequences. I had worked the night before, was in bed when I got the call and was not in the mood for any crap.
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64
I Do Not Think Everyone That is a JW Wastes Their Life
by Magwitch inmy 97 year old grandmother died last week.
she was actually born and raised a jw.
her mother (my great grandmother) was a russelite.
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Etude
Yes, absolutely. I hope your grandmother, in spite of her faithfulness, was not one to have shunned you and neglet members of your family that did not believe the same. Some people are like that. My mother never shunned me and would have ceased to be a Witness first if she was pushed to avoid her children.
At first, I thought it would be a loss anyway that someone would not otherwise thrive and become something "better" for being restricted with such teachings. But then I realize that in every religion, espcially the entrenched traditional and culturally attached ones (Quakers, Amish, etc), many people lead simple and satisfying lives. Not everyone can be an outlier. For me, I just think it's a shame to live in darkness no matter how garrish and blaring the light I face may be. As Patrick Henry once said: "For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it."
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51
What's The Worst Thing About Being A Jehovah's Witness?
by minimus infor me, i think it's that the witnesses teach they are god's spokesman.
they represent his "faithful & discreet slave"....and that they alone are expounders of the only truth and that if you disagree with anything they teach, you are considered worse than vomit.. it's unbelievable because these people are wrong so many times, it cannot be excused!.
as a witness, you must accept every viewpoint and if you (and your family) do not accept it all, hook, line and sinker, you are "apostates"!!!.
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Etude
I hear you loud and clear @NewChapter. For me, the guilt was about having to do something. I remember wondering on several occasions, if Christ's yoke was "easy", why it felt such a burden to have to go to field service, or to have to go to the damned meeting, or to have to choose between what they said and what my heart told me to do. Finally, it got to be a pain in the ass and I had to take medication for it. I got a prescription.
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Jehovah's Witnesses do not get divorces
by Las Malvinas son Argentinas infamous last words.. this is what my mum told me when papa moved out.
when it did finally happen months later, it was because he had left jehovah.
i hated him for many years and refused to speak to him.
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Etude
@LMSA: Congratulations on your new progeny! I think I understand your situation with your father. Just the other day, I wrote to my sister telling her how all the years we've lost (regardless of blame or even due to the fact that we made up after she left the WTS) can never be recovered. I don't know what it would take to make up for it. But whatever it is, the clock resets. Depending on the individuals, a new relationship has to start, one that may never be what either person would have expected or hoped for. That's gotta be the worst part about being a Witless. I'm sure there are exceptions if the familial ties were strong and not severely damaged.
I think that one of you showing a significant gesture towards the other would go a long way. You started by contacting him and telling him about his grand-daughter. It appears he was touched. Spending sufficient time together can foster that new relationship. Unfortunately, that's one of the things that life and circumstances do not always afford us. It takes a great deal of effort to make that happen. But by all means, keep that new door open.
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51
What's The Worst Thing About Being A Jehovah's Witness?
by minimus infor me, i think it's that the witnesses teach they are god's spokesman.
they represent his "faithful & discreet slave"....and that they alone are expounders of the only truth and that if you disagree with anything they teach, you are considered worse than vomit.. it's unbelievable because these people are wrong so many times, it cannot be excused!.
as a witness, you must accept every viewpoint and if you (and your family) do not accept it all, hook, line and sinker, you are "apostates"!!!.
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Etude
The worst thing for me was the slow and gradual deception I came to realize. I think that perhaps I would have put up with all the ridicule, the going out to "service", even some guilt (of which I already had plenty) and listening to stupid comments from the platform every week for the sake of being right and on the true path. That's why it hurt so much more to learn I was so deeply decieved. Given what I've come to learn about myself, it was only a matter of time. But I regret that I wasted so many years of my life without pursuing my education, my creativity, my freedom and giving up lots of nooky. I also lost my family. What a waste of time!
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68
spirituality and religion - what are the differences?
by soft+gentle intrying to understand the differences.
started this topic on the xjwsforchrist forum as well and would like to ask jwn posters the same question.
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Etude
I'm pretty sure, after reading several dictionary definitions, that the term "spirituality" has a fundamental undercurrent of being "spritiural" in the sense of having a feeling or idea of "more" and of a relation of one's consciousness with a greater aim or purpose and of a connection with other things in the universe, a oneness with the cosmos.
Unlike many other comments I've seen here and elsewhere, sprituality is real and pervasive in almost any culture. From the perspective of evolution, it is one of the things that creates contention while evolutionists try to explain something for which we apparently have no need for. The work of many scientists point to a special place in our brain (the "G" spot) that is significantly associated with "spirituality".
But, spirituality has nothing to do with religion because one can be spiritual and not be afilliated with any particular organization or institutionalized rites. Someone "communing" with nature in a deep and silent forrest or overlooking a vast ocean would experience the kind of spirituality that brings a kind of awe and even inspiration. God need not be present.
Religion, on the other hand, can usurp spirituality and often manipulates our spiritual tendencies for its own benefit. While religion sees spirituality as its venue, the opposite is not true. There are religious people with very little spirituality (they just need a label to walk around in life) and there are very spiritual people without any religion.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/192437/1/can-spirituality-replace-religion
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82
Is the Governing Body EVIL or IGNORANT?
by cedars insome of you will have noticed that i've been paying a lot of attention to the governing body recently.
this is because most jehovah's witnesses venerate them collectively (even if they can't name them individually), and i feel this makes it important to understand this group of men properly and expose their mindset as individuals.
as the saying goes, i feel it's important to "know your enemy".. i realize it's very convenient to think of the governing body as being "evil" when we consider that they are ultimately responsible for all the damaging jw teachings and beliefs.
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Etude
Who know what lurks in the hearts of men! I think that the WTBTS could take a lesson from Deuteronomy 22:8, which states: "When you build a new house, you shall make a parapet for your roof, so that you will not bring bloodguilt on your house if anyone falls from it." Since they're so hell-bent on "principles" from the old testament they should surrender to the authorities for commiting negligence that has cause so much pain and possibly death (like in Malawi). Their policies and reversal of policies have had untold consequences on families and individuals. They may not be evil, but their are quite guilty.
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Rene Vazquez
by Etude indoes anybody know how to get in touch with him, if he's still alive?
yes, that's the rene that's mentioned in the franz's "crisis of conscience" i think i knew him better than he knew me, way back when.
i feel regret that i didn't approach him many years ago when i saw him on the street.
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Etude
Does anybody know how to get in touch with him, if he's still alive? Yes, that's the Rene that's mentioned in the Franz's "Crisis of Conscience" I think I knew him better than he knew me, way back when. I feel regret that I didn't approach him many years ago when I saw him on the street. When he was a Witness, I thought that he was one of the most "balanced" and intelligent individuals I'd come in contact among the Witnesses. I'd like to get in touch with him if that's possible. Anyone?