That’s a good point. One of the questions they ask prospective elders these days is whether they have ever abused someone. If you can’t answer “no”, then you can’t ever be an elder. (I think I’ve got that right, others might know better) If that’s true, and if the circumstances fit, then perhaps what put LE off JWs was not just the demotion from being an elder, or the DFing, which can usually be reversed given enough time, but the realisation that there was no way back to being an elder ever because of the reason for his removal. If that is the policy then it actually sounds like quite a good policy if it flushes out people like this.
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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3148
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)
by Simon inuh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
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The ORG'S "foundation" name............
by BoogerMan in.........jehovah.. the bible's foundation name - (1 corinthians 3:11) "for no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is jesus christ.".
the org's chosen name for christians - "jehovah's witnesses.".
jehovah's chosen name for christians - acts 11:26 - "...the disciples were by divine providence called christians.".
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slimboyfat
I think Ezekiel 34 is an excellent explanation of the relationship between Jehovah and Jesus. It says:
Yahweh Will Shepherd His Flock
11 For thus says Lord Yahweh, “Behold, I Myself will seek My sheep and care for them. 12 As a shepherd cares for his herd in the day when he is among his sheep which are spread out, so I will care for My sheep and will deliver them from all the places to which they were scattered on a cloudy and gloomy day. 13 I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and bring them to their own land; and I will shepherd them on the mountains of Israel, by the streams, and in all the inhabited places of the land. 14 I will shepherd them in a good pasture, and their grazing ground will be on the mountain heights of Israel. There they will lie down on good grazing ground and be shepherded in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15 I will shepherd My flock, and I will make them lie down,” declares Lord Yahweh. 16 “I will search for the lost, bring back the scattered, bind up the broken, and strengthen the sick; but the fat and the strong I will destroy. I will shepherd them with judgment.
17 “As for you, My flock, thus says Lord Yahweh, ‘Behold, I will judge between one sheep and another, between the rams and the male goats.18 Is it too slight a thing for you that you should beshepherded in the good pasture, that you must tread down with your feet the rest of your pastures? Or that you should drink of the clear waters, that you must foul the rest with your feet? 19 As for My flock, they must be shepherded on what you tread down with your feet and drink what you foul with your feet!’”
20 Therefore, thus says Lord Yahweh to them, “Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat sheep and the lean sheep. 21 Because you push with side and with shoulder, and thrust at all the sickly with your horns until you have scattered them abroad, 22 therefore, I will save My flock, and they will no longer be plunder; and I will judge between one sheep and another.
23 “Then I will establish over them one shepherd, My servant David, and he will shepherd them; he will shepherd them himself and be their shepherd.24 And I, Yahweh, will be their God, and My servant David will be prince among them; I, Yahweh, have spoken.
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It says that Jehovah is the shepherd and he looks after his sheep. Then it says that how he does this is through his “servant David” who “will himself be their shepherd”. And the conclusion is that Jehovah is their “God” and his servant David will be “prince among them”. I don’t know how much clearer you can get than that.
When Jesus said “I am the fine shepherd” (John 10) he was claiming to be the Davidic messiah prophesied in Ezekiel, God’s servant.
Jehovah “will be their God” and that the messiah is God’s servant. This is the conclusion that JWs and other non Trinitarians draw from the plain meaning of such verses. The idea that what such passages really mean to say is that God and his servant are two co-equal and co-eternal persons within the one being of God is nowhere even hinted at in the text.
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The Saddest Thing About Tony Morris's Removal
by NotFormer ini've mentioned before how i've wondered how tony morris must have felt when he was sacked.
yes, i know he's a rehensible human being who got served a healthy dose of karma, or, if you like, divine judgement.
to go from having all there is to have within the world he lived in, to where he is now; that's a long fall.
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slimboyfat
I heard he underwent a forced medical procedure before he was ousted - he had his anecdotes removed as a precaution.
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The ORG'S "foundation" name............
by BoogerMan in.........jehovah.. the bible's foundation name - (1 corinthians 3:11) "for no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is jesus christ.".
the org's chosen name for christians - "jehovah's witnesses.".
jehovah's chosen name for christians - acts 11:26 - "...the disciples were by divine providence called christians.".
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slimboyfat
God for the first time turned his attention tothe nations to take out of them a people for his (Jesus or Jehovah?) name.
It’s a quote from Amos so the answer in this context is clear.Amos 9.12 So that they may take possession of what is remaining of Eʹdom,And all the nations on whom my name has been called,’ declares Jehovah, who is doing this.
The answer is not either Jesus/Christian or Jehovah. In Acts Jesus’ followers are called Christians. They are also called by Jehovah’s name. It’s both. Since Jesus’ name itself points to the name Jehovah, because “Jesus” means “Jehovah is salvation”, the two are compatible and support one another. Every use of the name Jesus glorifies his God Jehovah.
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The ORG'S "foundation" name............
by BoogerMan in.........jehovah.. the bible's foundation name - (1 corinthians 3:11) "for no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is jesus christ.".
the org's chosen name for christians - "jehovah's witnesses.".
jehovah's chosen name for christians - acts 11:26 - "...the disciples were by divine providence called christians.".
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slimboyfat
Acts 15.13: After they finished speaking, James replied: “Men, brothers, hear me. Symeon has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name. And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written: ‘After these things I will return and raise up again the tent of David that is fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins and restore it, so that the men who remain may earnestly seek Jehovah, together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name, says Jehovah, who is doing these things, known from of old.’
Remember that the name Jesus means Jehovah is salvation. Every time the name Jesus is used it points to the name of his God Jehovah. Every honour to Jesus is to the glory of Jehovah. Jehovah is the source of salvation and Jesus is the saviour Jehovah sent to bring about salvation.
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3148
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)
by Simon inuh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
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slimboyfat
Are there some examples of factual mistakes?
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Is a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses marries a disfellowshipped person, what is the outcome?
by EdenOne inhello all.. i need a quick answer, and also a solid reference in the literature, please.. if a jw marries an unbeliever, there is reproof, it's frowned upon, it's disloyal, there will be loss of privileges, etc, but there's no other more serious consequences.
but, in a scenario where two people are free to marry, but one is a baptized jw and the other is disfellowshipped / disassociated, what are the consequences?.
thanks for your help.. r..
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slimboyfat
I think we can safely say marrying a DFed person is a no, no. We can file it under things so obvious they didn’t think it needed saying. Like how there was no actual counsel point in the Theocratic School about not delivering your talk while dressed as Satan, or that prayers shouldn’t be spoken backwards and offered in the name of the Grand Smurf.
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The Reasoning Book
by Magnum inthe book reasoning from the scriptures was released in the 1980's, and it was used at virtually every meeting for service, every service meeting, and every theocratic ministry school meeting thereafter.
many jws had copies bound together with their bibles.
it was huge in jw land back then.. at that time, with the reasoning book, jws were trained to keep conversations going in spite of objections, to almost stick their feet in people's doors to keep conversations going, to defend "the truth," to argue doctrine, etc.. compare the situation today with that of the 80's.
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slimboyfat
I’m pretty sure there is a difference in the Blood section between editions because I remember an elder being embarrassed about it when we read the section in a field service group and different people had different wording in their copies. That was an odd thing to be reading at a service group but we seemed to do that sort of thing back then.
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Is Jesus God?
by Sea Breeze ini know that a lot of historical names have claimed to be a god.
but, jesus arguably claimed to be god.
scripture says he's the creator.
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slimboyfat
You can read anything into the NT if you like but some readings are more credible than others. For example the idea the messiah is an angelic being who came to earth and who rules as God’s vice regent was a Jewish idea that clearly resonates with the presentation of a Jesus in the NT. The idea that Jesus is one person of a tri-personal God, eternally begotten, not made, and that he has two natures was an idea that was developed centuries later than the NT and therefore much more difficult to try to squeeze into the Bible.
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Is Jesus God?
by Sea Breeze ini know that a lot of historical names have claimed to be a god.
but, jesus arguably claimed to be god.
scripture says he's the creator.
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slimboyfat
Jesus addressed the issue head on in John 10 where he pointed out to the Pharisees that if even those referred to in the Psalms (be they judges or angels) can be called “gods”, so much more can Jesus the messiah rightly be called “God’s Son”.
Jesus is also called the “firstborn of all creation” and the “beginning of the creation of God”, and he is described as the one through whom God created all things. Revelation 4 underlines this distinction when it says God is worthy to receive power and honour and glory because he is the source of creation, whereas Jesus as the lamb in Revelation 5 receives power and honour and glory because of his sacrifice for humans.
Jesus received his life from God (John 5.67) whereas God received his life from no one.