I’ve sometimes given myself a strange chuckle thinking what would be the reaction if I attended a KH unknown to me and started raising my hands in the air while singing the kingdom songs with enthusiasm. On the one hand there is nothing wrong with singing with enthusiasm, right? On the other hand, the gesture of raising your hands during song is so contrary to JW culture because it evokes a charismatic style of worship that is alien to JWs. The appearance of someone who knows the kingdom songs raising hands would be so jarring I wonder if an attendant might even intervene.
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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6
The Future
by no-zombie indo you want to see into the future?.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhyi3h7beea.
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3144
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)
by Simon inuh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
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slimboyfat
Thanks, yes always bad to take LE’s word for it.
I do have some familiarity with Amazon. What I think LE perhaps meant was that he felt constrained by the incentive structure to price below a certain level. These levels change, but generally Amazon like to get self publishers to price as low as possible and they set their commission structure to reflect this. As I understand it Amazon don’t tell self publishers exactly what they can charge but what they do is make it unattractive to price above certain levels because the cut Amazon takes rises steeply, or you miss certain benefits if you price outside their range. And of course LE wouldn’t like being told or pressured by anyone what to do, especially when it comes to curbing his ability to price gauge his customers. It’s probably the closest he’s come to an employer/employee relationship and he didn’t like it.
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3144
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)
by Simon inuh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
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slimboyfat
Since Lloyd was charging the highest amount Amazon would allow even after clearing $21K in crowdfunding, he was being unreasonable.
The price is high for a book of its kind, but I don’t know what Amazon price limit you mean. There certainly are plenty of other paperbacks that cost more on the site. Can you explain?
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The ORG'S "foundation" name............
by BoogerMan in.........jehovah.. the bible's foundation name - (1 corinthians 3:11) "for no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is jesus christ.".
the org's chosen name for christians - "jehovah's witnesses.".
jehovah's chosen name for christians - acts 11:26 - "...the disciples were by divine providence called christians.".
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slimboyfat
The reason that WT trainees have such a hard time conceiving the fact that Jesus is BOTH fully God and fully man is that the WT denies the tri-partite nature of man.
It’s not just “WT trainees” as you put it, who don’t find the “fully God and fully man” dogma in scripture. It’s all non Trinitarians across history, including early modern believers, the Polish brethren, William Whiston, Isaac Newton, Samuel Clarke, John Milton, nineteenth century Unitarians Ezra Abbot, George Vance Smith, Ulfilas who converted the Germanic tribes in the 4th century and translated the Bible into Gothic, the majority of ordinary believers during the 4th century Christological dispute - basically any Christian believers before Chalcedon 451 AD when the doctrine of the dual nature of Jesus was formulated. Not to mention the fact that any serious scholar who studies early Christianity without a prior faith commitment to the Trinity and Chalcedon definitions does not find the dual nature idea anywhere in scripture or early Christianity. So, not just “WT trainees”.
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3144
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)
by Simon inuh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
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slimboyfat
That’s a good point. One of the questions they ask prospective elders these days is whether they have ever abused someone. If you can’t answer “no”, then you can’t ever be an elder. (I think I’ve got that right, others might know better) If that’s true, and if the circumstances fit, then perhaps what put LE off JWs was not just the demotion from being an elder, or the DFing, which can usually be reversed given enough time, but the realisation that there was no way back to being an elder ever because of the reason for his removal. If that is the policy then it actually sounds like quite a good policy if it flushes out people like this.
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The ORG'S "foundation" name............
by BoogerMan in.........jehovah.. the bible's foundation name - (1 corinthians 3:11) "for no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is jesus christ.".
the org's chosen name for christians - "jehovah's witnesses.".
jehovah's chosen name for christians - acts 11:26 - "...the disciples were by divine providence called christians.".
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slimboyfat
I think Ezekiel 34 is an excellent explanation of the relationship between Jehovah and Jesus. It says:
Yahweh Will Shepherd His Flock
11 For thus says Lord Yahweh, “Behold, I Myself will seek My sheep and care for them. 12 As a shepherd cares for his herd in the day when he is among his sheep which are spread out, so I will care for My sheep and will deliver them from all the places to which they were scattered on a cloudy and gloomy day. 13 I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and bring them to their own land; and I will shepherd them on the mountains of Israel, by the streams, and in all the inhabited places of the land. 14 I will shepherd them in a good pasture, and their grazing ground will be on the mountain heights of Israel. There they will lie down on good grazing ground and be shepherded in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15 I will shepherd My flock, and I will make them lie down,” declares Lord Yahweh. 16 “I will search for the lost, bring back the scattered, bind up the broken, and strengthen the sick; but the fat and the strong I will destroy. I will shepherd them with judgment.
17 “As for you, My flock, thus says Lord Yahweh, ‘Behold, I will judge between one sheep and another, between the rams and the male goats.18 Is it too slight a thing for you that you should beshepherded in the good pasture, that you must tread down with your feet the rest of your pastures? Or that you should drink of the clear waters, that you must foul the rest with your feet? 19 As for My flock, they must be shepherded on what you tread down with your feet and drink what you foul with your feet!’”
20 Therefore, thus says Lord Yahweh to them, “Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat sheep and the lean sheep. 21 Because you push with side and with shoulder, and thrust at all the sickly with your horns until you have scattered them abroad, 22 therefore, I will save My flock, and they will no longer be plunder; and I will judge between one sheep and another.
23 “Then I will establish over them one shepherd, My servant David, and he will shepherd them; he will shepherd them himself and be their shepherd.24 And I, Yahweh, will be their God, and My servant David will be prince among them; I, Yahweh, have spoken.
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It says that Jehovah is the shepherd and he looks after his sheep. Then it says that how he does this is through his “servant David” who “will himself be their shepherd”. And the conclusion is that Jehovah is their “God” and his servant David will be “prince among them”. I don’t know how much clearer you can get than that.
When Jesus said “I am the fine shepherd” (John 10) he was claiming to be the Davidic messiah prophesied in Ezekiel, God’s servant.
Jehovah “will be their God” and that the messiah is God’s servant. This is the conclusion that JWs and other non Trinitarians draw from the plain meaning of such verses. The idea that what such passages really mean to say is that God and his servant are two co-equal and co-eternal persons within the one being of God is nowhere even hinted at in the text.
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The Saddest Thing About Tony Morris's Removal
by NotFormer ini've mentioned before how i've wondered how tony morris must have felt when he was sacked.
yes, i know he's a rehensible human being who got served a healthy dose of karma, or, if you like, divine judgement.
to go from having all there is to have within the world he lived in, to where he is now; that's a long fall.
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slimboyfat
I heard he underwent a forced medical procedure before he was ousted - he had his anecdotes removed as a precaution.
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The ORG'S "foundation" name............
by BoogerMan in.........jehovah.. the bible's foundation name - (1 corinthians 3:11) "for no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is jesus christ.".
the org's chosen name for christians - "jehovah's witnesses.".
jehovah's chosen name for christians - acts 11:26 - "...the disciples were by divine providence called christians.".
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slimboyfat
God for the first time turned his attention tothe nations to take out of them a people for his (Jesus or Jehovah?) name.
It’s a quote from Amos so the answer in this context is clear.Amos 9.12 So that they may take possession of what is remaining of Eʹdom,And all the nations on whom my name has been called,’ declares Jehovah, who is doing this.
The answer is not either Jesus/Christian or Jehovah. In Acts Jesus’ followers are called Christians. They are also called by Jehovah’s name. It’s both. Since Jesus’ name itself points to the name Jehovah, because “Jesus” means “Jehovah is salvation”, the two are compatible and support one another. Every use of the name Jesus glorifies his God Jehovah.
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The ORG'S "foundation" name............
by BoogerMan in.........jehovah.. the bible's foundation name - (1 corinthians 3:11) "for no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is jesus christ.".
the org's chosen name for christians - "jehovah's witnesses.".
jehovah's chosen name for christians - acts 11:26 - "...the disciples were by divine providence called christians.".
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slimboyfat
Acts 15.13: After they finished speaking, James replied: “Men, brothers, hear me. Symeon has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name. And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written: ‘After these things I will return and raise up again the tent of David that is fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins and restore it, so that the men who remain may earnestly seek Jehovah, together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name, says Jehovah, who is doing these things, known from of old.’
Remember that the name Jesus means Jehovah is salvation. Every time the name Jesus is used it points to the name of his God Jehovah. Every honour to Jesus is to the glory of Jehovah. Jehovah is the source of salvation and Jesus is the saviour Jehovah sent to bring about salvation.
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3144
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)
by Simon inuh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
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slimboyfat
Are there some examples of factual mistakes?