Posts by slimboyfat

114

the watchtower is starting to crumble

by pepperheart in

for the december monthly broadcast instead of jws from around the world waving to you and items of how to shun people we will have to make do with repeats of of old gilead videos that have been on the jw website for a good while.

slimboyfat

I don't doubt I've said different ideas at different times. These are just my ideas and they are evolving as facts change. But I think it's easy to reconcile the idea that a WWCG style collapse could begin within a couple of years, yet take around 10 years to lose 50% of the membership as a result. That's the sort of scenario the WWCG experienced, and in fact is still playing out. I think they are far below 50% now.

This is not wishful thinking. No my real dream scenario is that the JW leadership recognise imminent collapse, implement important reforms (shunning, blood, evolution, democracy, gender and sexual equality, education...) and instead emphasise heritage we can be proud of: nonviolence/opposition to war, the divine name, Bible teaching, scholarship, history, rationalism, freedom of thought, strong families and friendships; radically transform the JW community and make a basis for a better humanity.

31

What's destroying Watchtower!

by UnshackleTheChains in

for me, beyond any shadow of a doubt, it's the extreme shunning policy.. at a recent sunday meeting, i listened to a complete brainwashed sister saying how important it was that we stick to the shunning policy even if it is a close relative.. i just thought.

wtf.

there is a big difference between the brainwashed and the awoken class!.

slimboyfat

I competely agree. Shunning has to stop. Were it not for shunning and freedom of thought I could happily be JW.

114

the watchtower is starting to crumble

by pepperheart in

for the december monthly broadcast instead of jws from around the world waving to you and items of how to shun people we will have to make do with repeats of of old gilead videos that have been on the jw website for a good while.

slimboyfat

I think I've been pretty clear that anything resembling a WWCG type collapse would qualify as a collapse in my view. Including features such as a massive reduction of membership (say 50% in less than a decade, which is the sort of pace of WWCG decline), folding legal entities to protect assets, financial intervention/claims from outside stakeholders, disruption to organisational integrity, change of name, major splits, defections, renunciation of history, renunciation of core beliefs, and so on. I don't think they are far away from this.

The most possitive spin you could put on their current situation is that the GB and management have sat down and had long hard think about strategy. They decided, in the words of the old saying: "in order for things to remain the same, everything must change". So they've implemented a plan to avoid financial and organisational ruin. Well maybe so.

But I think the signals of panic are so high, the lack of coherent strategy so evident, and the accumulation of threats and dangers so great, that there is little way out for them at this point. They are facing some sort of existential crisis. Exactly what form it will take and what will emerge is not easy to say. But I think it will warrant the description "collapse" by any reasonable analysis.

114

the watchtower is starting to crumble

by pepperheart in

for the december monthly broadcast instead of jws from around the world waving to you and items of how to shun people we will have to make do with repeats of of old gilead videos that have been on the jw website for a good while.

slimboyfat

Renunciation of their past, decimation of membership, change of name, dozens of splinter groups, financial ruin, complete disunity, you don't consider that collapse?

If that's your definition of survival then I guess I agree with you that Watchtower will "survive".

In order for it to be described as a "collapse" what exactly would you demand happen? That there be no members of Watchtower or any successor or splinter organisation anywhere in the world instantly? I think we can agree that's impossible. But if that's the only measure you'd accept then I guess you will always be right about Watchtower "survival".

114

the watchtower is starting to crumble

by pepperheart in

for the december monthly broadcast instead of jws from around the world waving to you and items of how to shun people we will have to make do with repeats of of old gilead videos that have been on the jw website for a good while.

slimboyfat

They are firing out all sorts of indications of desperation in all directions and in multi-colour. But some people just don't see it.

11

Apathy and of course Scandals!

by KW13 in

jw
friends

i remember as a young dub, being told by others and particularly from the platform that apathy was the number one enemy and in many ways i think that's true today.

people are seeing a change from the 70's - 80's (the last time the end 'felt' close to many) and now the witnesses are in a rut.

the society seem to have backed off from making bold claims and instead seem to be trying their best to retain the members they have as opposed to trying to gain attention of others as they did in the formative years of the religion when they wore sandwich boards - throw in the growing spotlight on child abuse issues and you've got yourself a religion that's trapped in a purgatory of sorts - the majority of long time members will stay in the religion and die in the religion but as time goes on i think are clearly losing interest and the 'fiery passion' that used to be so obvious before and outsiders just arent interested as there are better, more interesting things to do.

slimboyfat

I don't know, other ones have leaked, no? Like the "digital future" one. I think it would take a UK elder to download it and leak it to someone.

11

Apathy and of course Scandals!

by KW13 in

jw
friends

i remember as a young dub, being told by others and particularly from the platform that apathy was the number one enemy and in many ways i think that's true today.

people are seeing a change from the 70's - 80's (the last time the end 'felt' close to many) and now the witnesses are in a rut.

the society seem to have backed off from making bold claims and instead seem to be trying their best to retain the members they have as opposed to trying to gain attention of others as they did in the formative years of the religion when they wore sandwich boards - throw in the growing spotlight on child abuse issues and you've got yourself a religion that's trapped in a purgatory of sorts - the majority of long time members will stay in the religion and die in the religion but as time goes on i think are clearly losing interest and the 'fiery passion' that used to be so obvious before and outsiders just arent interested as there are better, more interesting things to do.

slimboyfat

No link I saw it live. I've been waiting for it to leak to forum and discussion but I've not seen it yet. Dark?

11

Apathy and of course Scandals!

by KW13 in

jw
friends

i remember as a young dub, being told by others and particularly from the platform that apathy was the number one enemy and in many ways i think that's true today.

people are seeing a change from the 70's - 80's (the last time the end 'felt' close to many) and now the witnesses are in a rut.

the society seem to have backed off from making bold claims and instead seem to be trying their best to retain the members they have as opposed to trying to gain attention of others as they did in the formative years of the religion when they wore sandwich boards - throw in the growing spotlight on child abuse issues and you've got yourself a religion that's trapped in a purgatory of sorts - the majority of long time members will stay in the religion and die in the religion but as time goes on i think are clearly losing interest and the 'fiery passion' that used to be so obvious before and outsiders just arent interested as there are better, more interesting things to do.

slimboyfat

The watchtower is going to implode imminently, and apathy is part of it.

On the related topic of Chelmsford, there was a video update played at the meeting two weeks ago. Has this been discussed on the forum? I have been looking out and not seen any discussion.

Basicslly the video said residential buildings are coming along nicely. There was no mention of printing and no explanation what the actual function of the new branch will be. Instead there was a sister who gave up a job she "loved" to volunteer at Chelmsford who is sure she made the right decision. And there was a brand new brother (baptised months ago) who is a bricklayer and said they have so many thousands/millions of bricks to lay and they could use more help. The video was well presented but it didn't answer some crucial questions about what on Earth is the point of the whole thing. I actually don't think this omission was lost on the audience.

114

the watchtower is starting to crumble

by pepperheart in

for the december monthly broadcast instead of jws from around the world waving to you and items of how to shun people we will have to make do with repeats of of old gilead videos that have been on the jw website for a good while.

slimboyfat

Yes I've been to a Grace Communion International meeting, and many meetings of Mormons, SDAs, Christadelphians, Unitarians, and others. I've not just read about it, I've experienced it. I've talked to dozens of members, been invited to homes, had meals, argued, agreed, had barbecues, gone to movies, car journeys, sung songs, presented myself, learned many things beyond the religious too. I know quite a lot about all these groups now, both from extensive reading and experience. I should make a thread outlining exactly where I think each of these groups is doing things right, and how astonishingly badly Watchtower is doing in almost every conceivable area of (in)competence. The comparisons illuminate the unassailable case for imminent collapse.

114

the watchtower is starting to crumble

by pepperheart in

for the december monthly broadcast instead of jws from around the world waving to you and items of how to shun people we will have to make do with repeats of of old gilead videos that have been on the jw website for a good while.

slimboyfat

It shows me that JWs lack precisely the qualities that have allowed Christadelphians, Unitarians and others to cling on, and the SDAs to continue growing. They much more closely resemble the Worldwise Church of God which suffered sudden collapse and subsequent disintegration.