Has anyone noticed this new song? I think it's absolutely beautiful. It's got a film score quality about it, with depth and feeling. And the lyrics, what to say about the lyrics? There are few if any specifically JW words, or even Christian words come to that. Any Christian, or other kind of believer, could surely sing it with no problem. In fact many secular optimists would surely be happy singing it, apart from the one word "pray", socialists, communists, liberal progressives, could sing it just as well. And you could interpret "pray" in a secular sense.
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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Beautiful new kingdom song
by slimboyfat inhas anyone noticed this new song?
i think it's absolutely beautiful.
it's got a film score quality about it, with depth and feeling.
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The Internet is worse for the Watchtower than 1975 was: here's proof.
by ILoveTTATT2 ini am translating jwfacts to spanish.
i am doing the "statistics" section.here are two graphs that show that the statistics have never been worse for the watchtower:quantity of hours required for 1 baptism: note how low it went in 1974-1975, and note that 2016 is much higher than the slump of 1978... about double, to be exact.
2016 was a historical record in this statistic (higher is worse for watchtower).. this stat is the baptisms as a percentage of the publisher average.
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slimboyfat
Ha! Yes I was going to post the diagram but I don't know how to link images. Search for "Steve Bruce secularisation paradigm" and the diagram comes up.
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The Internet is worse for the Watchtower than 1975 was: here's proof.
by ILoveTTATT2 ini am translating jwfacts to spanish.
i am doing the "statistics" section.here are two graphs that show that the statistics have never been worse for the watchtower:quantity of hours required for 1 baptism: note how low it went in 1974-1975, and note that 2016 is much higher than the slump of 1978... about double, to be exact.
2016 was a historical record in this statistic (higher is worse for watchtower).. this stat is the baptisms as a percentage of the publisher average.
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slimboyfat
jwfacts this is the Mormon study that claimed to show the impact of the Internet on growth is neutral. They don't really talk in terms of the church being undermined by online information (it's a pro-Mormon angle) but that's a major consideration, reading between the lines.
http://cumorah.com/index.php?target=view_case_studies&story_id=339&cat_id=8
Here is the blog post on the topic from a very interesting blog on Mormon growth.
http://ldschurchgrowth.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/The%20Internet%20and%20LDS%20Growth
Paul I agree with the additional factors for JW decline you mention. In particular the increasing acceptance of homosexuality is a problem for JWs. I think in the past many gay people remained JWs because they wouldn't find acceptance outside the religion anyway. Nowadays the contrast between acceptance outside the religion and stigmatisation inside the religion is pretty stark, and probably pushes most young gay people to leave.
But I disagree when you say that "information" and science and so on are responsible for the decline of religion. I disagree for two reasons. Firstly I think it misunderstands how science and faith interact in a way that former JWs are particularly prone to misunderstand this issue. But more importantly the proponents of secularisation theory are particularly at pains to point out that the process of secularisation is not the result of science disproving religion, or information exposing religion or any such thing. The roots of secularisation are much deeper and social than that. In particular it results from individualisation, capitalism, egalitarianism, social differetiation, pluralism, relativism, technological consciousness, and compartmentalisation, among other social factors outlined by Steve Bruce and other social theorists.
It's getting a bit old now but I still think the best explanation of secularisation is this book.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/God-Dead-Secularization-Steve-Bruce-ebook/dp/B000W278JW
On the other hand there is a brand new book by historian Callum Brown, who emphasises cultural and gender reasons for religious decline. In his latest book "Becomign Atheist" he draws on a number of JW examples. Which should not be surprising because JWs are particularly prone to becoming atheist.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Becoming-Atheist-Humanism-Secular-West/dp/1474224520/
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The Internet is worse for the Watchtower than 1975 was: here's proof.
by ILoveTTATT2 ini am translating jwfacts to spanish.
i am doing the "statistics" section.here are two graphs that show that the statistics have never been worse for the watchtower:quantity of hours required for 1 baptism: note how low it went in 1974-1975, and note that 2016 is much higher than the slump of 1978... about double, to be exact.
2016 was a historical record in this statistic (higher is worse for watchtower).. this stat is the baptisms as a percentage of the publisher average.
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slimboyfat
Do you think the generation change in 1995 had any impact?
Another difference between 1975 and the "generation" prediction is that they left lots of wriggle room in the event of disconfimatuon over 1975, whereas the "generation" teaching had been stated clearly and uncompromisingly for decades.
1975 was suggested as an"appropriate time" for God to act, whereas the "generation" teaching was described as the "creator's promise" in every issue of the Awake!
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The Internet is worse for the Watchtower than 1975 was: here's proof.
by ILoveTTATT2 ini am translating jwfacts to spanish.
i am doing the "statistics" section.here are two graphs that show that the statistics have never been worse for the watchtower:quantity of hours required for 1 baptism: note how low it went in 1974-1975, and note that 2016 is much higher than the slump of 1978... about double, to be exact.
2016 was a historical record in this statistic (higher is worse for watchtower).. this stat is the baptisms as a percentage of the publisher average.
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slimboyfat
The downward trend starts too early for the Internet to be the main factor.
Plus the 1995 generation change was different from 1975 in important ways. In particular, when 1975 failed, JWs still had the "generation" teaching to ensure Armageddon was not far away. Now since 1995 they have nothing, at least nothing credible, to prove the end is near.
Look at the statistics of religious decline in general, in particular since the 1990s. JWs are not exception. Most churches are dealing, many much more significantly in decline than JWs.
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The Internet is worse for the Watchtower than 1975 was: here's proof.
by ILoveTTATT2 ini am translating jwfacts to spanish.
i am doing the "statistics" section.here are two graphs that show that the statistics have never been worse for the watchtower:quantity of hours required for 1 baptism: note how low it went in 1974-1975, and note that 2016 is much higher than the slump of 1978... about double, to be exact.
2016 was a historical record in this statistic (higher is worse for watchtower).. this stat is the baptisms as a percentage of the publisher average.
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slimboyfat
Why not attribute the decline to the 1995 generation change? (A big turning point for many)
Or the fact that people are becoming less religious and leaving churches in general? A huge trend in most developed countries from which JWs are not immune.
Or the organisational cutbacks that have discouraged many?
I don't think it's safe to attribute the decline primarily to the Internet.
For what it's worth, some Mormons did an analysis of their figures and concluded the Internet was not an important factor in growth or decline. Not sure how robust their methodology or how reliable their findings were, but I do share their scepticism about the commonplace assumption that the Internet is causing decline.
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Do you feel comfortable being an apostate?
by Chook ini always found it uncomfortable to informal witness to people but trying to convince a jw to jump ship brings much more pleasure..
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slimboyfat
In this situation I sometimes I think it might be an idea just to say you've changed your beliefs and act like it is a totally normal thing. Because it is a normal thing, to most normal people, and not the occasion for ostracism, name calling and abuse. If JWs want to act crazy, give them a calm backdrop of normality against which to act it out.
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Do you feel comfortable being an apostate?
by Chook ini always found it uncomfortable to informal witness to people but trying to convince a jw to jump ship brings much more pleasure..
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slimboyfat
There's such a thing as using a term ironically, however.
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This is why the Elders should always call the WT society or personal attorney before ever talking to the Police.
by StoneWall inthis is probably going to unnerve some on here or make them uncomfortable.we always hear, why didn't the elders call the cops first instead of the wt society (lawyers/attorneys).
in cases of child molestation or other incidents.this video is why and if you're smart you'll follow their example.i'm not taking the wtbts side on this just so you know in advance because i do not agree with the two witness rule at all.but be that as it may,this is by far the best lawyer/attorney and law professor i've ever heard on the subject of why you should never talk to the police and always let an investigation be made through counsel.this is why in the usa you have the right to remain silent when talking to police/authorities but even more important what the fifth amendment really entails and why it would behoove us all to understand what can happen even if you are totally innocent and have nothing to hide but how things can go horribly wrong.if i ever have to go to court for anything i can only hope that i got a lawyer as competent as this one the vid is approx 46 minutes long but well worth investing that time because if you had to talk to a lawyer it would cost you a lot to receive what this professor covers in this.the majority is from the law professor and the remaining minutes are of a former police captain/investigator with his insights and opinions.and just to be clear, i'm not suggesting that the elders not call the police because they should in cases of child molestation but rather they better get legal advice to protect themselves so that they don't have to answer for the wtbts decisions.look how many former (ex) elders we have on sites like this one and others and i'm so happy they got free of the wt but also they didn't get in trouble by accidentally saying/doing the wrong thing.all of us can benefit by following this advice in the video and i hope you enjoy it and to know what your rights arehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xyp7ee.
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slimboyfat
It's a good video, and quite amusing, especially when the lawyer shouts at the audience not to answer the policeman's questions.
It's been posted and discussed on this forum before and it's been pointed out that the same right to remain silent doesn't necessarily exist in the UK or other countries as it does in the US.
But as a general principle it is always better not to say anything much in any sort of situation and to wait and see what the other person says instead. Not just with police, or with elders, but anyone. Listening carefully is always a better strategy than talking too much.
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The "Jesus is Michael" teaching soon to go?
by Island Man incould the teaching that jesus is michael the archangel, be soon to be discarded?
first of all, watchtower is big on image and this is one of those teachings that paint the jw religion as being rather kooky and heretical.
secondly, this teaching is not an original watchtower teaching but one they inherited from their second adventist ancestry.
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slimboyfat
I don't see any reason to change it. It's a reasonable position. I see no advantage in changing it. To distance themselves from Adventists? JWs have very little sense of having anything much to do with Adventists anyway.