slimboyfat

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Posts by slimboyfat

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  74

  Was/Is Religion Useful Even if it isn't True?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in his book "the righteous mind" jonathan haidt proposes that religion served - and continues to serve an important role in bringing about cohesion within non-kin groups.. to put it very briefly haidt advocates a form of group selection but only insofar as it applies to humans.

  our unique brains have made it possible for us to cooperate in groups in ways that are impossible for all non-human species.

  despite their intelligence you will never see two chimps helping each other to carry the same log or one chimp pulling down a branch while the other removes the fruit.. his description is that humans are 90% chimp and 10% bee.

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  slimboyfat

  https://www.quantamagazine.org/20160421-the-evolutionary-argument-against-reality/
  
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  74

  Was/Is Religion Useful Even if it isn't True?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in his book "the righteous mind" jonathan haidt proposes that religion served - and continues to serve an important role in bringing about cohesion within non-kin groups.. to put it very briefly haidt advocates a form of group selection but only insofar as it applies to humans.

  our unique brains have made it possible for us to cooperate in groups in ways that are impossible for all non-human species.

  despite their intelligence you will never see two chimps helping each other to carry the same log or one chimp pulling down a branch while the other removes the fruit.. his description is that humans are 90% chimp and 10% bee.

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  slimboyfat

  What is the basis for assuming that perceptions that promote survival are also objectively true perceptions?

  I am not sure to what extent we "choose" to believe things. My experience of beliefs is not that I can change them at will through "choice". I can't say I will "choose" to believe in homeopathy for example, because it would involve me accepting various thing I don't find reasonable. Beliefs seem to arise from somewhere deeper inside than simply a choice, such as choosing what to wear or where to go on holiday, and is in some sense involuntary. Do you experience beliefs as a choice?
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  74

  Was/Is Religion Useful Even if it isn't True?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in his book "the righteous mind" jonathan haidt proposes that religion served - and continues to serve an important role in bringing about cohesion within non-kin groups.. to put it very briefly haidt advocates a form of group selection but only insofar as it applies to humans.

  our unique brains have made it possible for us to cooperate in groups in ways that are impossible for all non-human species.

  despite their intelligence you will never see two chimps helping each other to carry the same log or one chimp pulling down a branch while the other removes the fruit.. his description is that humans are 90% chimp and 10% bee.

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  slimboyfat

  I think the word "even" in the title of the thread is interesting. It seems to imply there is a close correlation between things that are "useful" and things that are "true", such that deviations from this rule would be exceptional rather than commonplace. But is that really true? I'm not sure that's an assumption that should be granted in the fire place.

  Which actually touches upon one of the most compelling arguments in favour of God: the argument from evolution. Because if we grant evolution as true then out mental capacities are a result of a long process of refining cognition in the direction of what is useful for survival. And what is useful for survival is not necessarily what is true about the world.

  One example (probably not the best since it is disputed) is the psychological bias toward optimism that most humans share, except those who suffer from depression. It's a consistent finding of psychologists that humans are extremely poor at judging risk, and for example consistently underestimate the chances of them encountering major difficulties in life such as major illness, bereavement, unemployment, separation, injury, crime and so on. Interestingly clinically depressed people are much better at assessing the true odds of encountering negative life changing events. Yet the price they pay for having this "true" picture of reality is a mental condition which can be extremely debilitating. The point being this is an example where a "true" picture of reality is not "useful" in that it impacts a person in ways we would normally judge to be detrimental.

  In a broader sense, if evolution is true, then it follows that our mental perception is a tool which has been shaped for survival rather than a tool for accurately depicting the world around us.
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  13

  Way to make me look stupid . . .

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when the arc made their recommendations to the society last year i genuinely thought we'd see some real changes.

  oh sure, i expected a lot of feet dragging, double talk, and general nonsense - but at the end of the day i was certain the society would do what they legally had to and then run around claiming:.

  ) these new policies and procedures aren't really new we've always done them.

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  slimboyfat

  Isn't there still time for them to comply? I didn't think it was the end of the process.

  If they were facing the situation in the United States and the GB were compelled to attend the response may be different.

  Will something force them to change in the end? If not government action then ultimately discontent from within expressing itself in declining membership and donations?
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  19

  Tried my hand at creating a couple of memes. What do you think?

  by nicolaou in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  just a bit of fun..

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  slimboyfat

  Might be a typo for dark but probably not.

  The regular dictionary says it means damp and cold which doesn't fit.

  But the urban dictionary says it means potent or powerful, as in drugs. That's probably the meaning.

  I like Ike the cliff one. Would make good postcards.
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  32

  What is having the biggest impact on the watchtower Bible and tract society?

  by UnshackleTheChains in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi all.. this is a reasonable question and would love to know what you think is having the biggest impact on watchtower.

  there is a plethora of websites talking negatively of watchtower.

  there are the never ending court cases regarding child abuse allegations.

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  slimboyfat

  The fact that they seem to be in decline. Totally demoralising for a religion predicated on growth and endtime prophecies.
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

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  slimboyfat

  On the subject of "what we need in order to believe", I think Karen Armstrong's perspective on this is interesting. From my reading, she argues that the common notion that religious actions follow beliefs is the wrong way round. She says that in order to believe a religion we first need to practise the religion. You don't become convinced about a religion by reading or studying or debating. The only way "in" to a religion is practice. If you practise a religion, often you will find your faith growing before too long.
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

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  slimboyfat

  God can't lie but he can "send out delusions". 2 Thes 2:11

  In the case of lying, God probably uses the Nixon defence: it isn't lying when God does it.

  Or maybe God is constrained by certain things. Maybe the world he creates is the best possible one. Why not? He's still almighty in relation to us.
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

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  slimboyfat

  Do materialists really believe in "natural evil", or what do you mean by it? If there is no God or purpose behind things, isn't it a case of "natural indifference" rather than evil? If there is no God, what is the use of a concept such as "natural evil"?
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  36

  What is the basis for advising “Don’t pursue higher studies”?

  by venus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  two elders who visited my friend last week encouraged her not to pursue higher studies.

  it seems they are dishing out the same old stuff: “the end is imminent, and this is the time to do more in the service; hence don’t waste your resources on higher studies.”.

  i wonder whether there was some official communiqué (something that is sent out recently like letter to the elders, or kingdom ministry article …).

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  slimboyfat

  People who get an education tend to leave JWs. That's the basis of the "don't do higher education" instruction.