Posts by slimboyfat

6

Isn’t teaching of grace (undeserved kindness) a great apostasy?

by anointed1 in

in the old testament the basic teaching is that no sin would go unpunished.

suddenly, it takes an opposite turn in the new testament where grace is shown as flowing through jesus to sinners who put faith in the sacrificial death of jesus.

interestingly, new testament writers admit that both the teachings are in opposition to each other.

slimboyfat

What the New Testament teaches on this subject is mixed to say the least:

James 2:24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

Ephesians 2:8, 9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

In the early church the biggest advocates of "once saved always saved" were the Gnostics. The church fathers on the other hand taught a Catholic or JW version of salvation that could be lost by wrong action.

10

Interesting Information: The FBI Wanted JW Leader Joseph Rutherford Arrested - See Document

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

http://watchtowerdocuments.org/the-fbi-wanted-jw-leader-jo…/.

the fbi wanted jw leader joseph rutherford arrested.

in a memorandum dated march 28, 1941, the director of the federal bureau of investigation strongly suggested that joseph f. rutherford, then president….

slimboyfat

Leolaia discussed Hoover initiating arrest of Rutherford months before he died here.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/164813/j-edgar-hoover-arrest-detain-rutherford-case-national-emergency?page=0&size=20

57

Jehovah's Witness / ex-JW Suicide Rate?

by Simon in

it's no secret that both remaining a jw or leaving the wts can take a toll on mental health.

some will suffer from depression and ultimately some will have thoughts of suicide and a few will succumb to those.. but i don't recall ever seeing any hard stats or studies on it though.

i'm sure we all know of some people who have committed suicide but i don't know if, because you may have loose association with a much larger pool of people through the religion, that this only seems higher or maybe not be actually higher than the general population.. what i mean is, you go to a kh here there maybe 100-150 people, you attend circuit and district conventions with many tens of thousands - if any one person commits suicide then you likely hear about it and it becomes part of the anecdotal 'evidence' that is then put forward as a fact that there is a higher rate ... but is there?.

slimboyfat

I've got Bergman's book "Jehovah's Witnesses and the Problem of Mental Illness". It's pretty bad. Bergman doesn't just collate and present the work of experts as Jonsson did. He makes many assertions about JWs supposedly on the basis of his own clinical practice. He claimed to be a psychologist presenting his experience with patients, but his qualifications have been disputed. Plus he makes many assertions with no supporting evidence, such as referring to "the high murder rate" among JWs with no footnote or source. And he used aliases to publish and then quoted from his own work under a different name, among other shenanigans. Richard Singelenberg explained some of the problems in his review of Bergman's bibliography of JWs.

http://jehovah.to/gen/freedom/review.htm

21

REVEALED: The number of Bethelites over the years

by darkspilver in

jw
friends

in response to this thread.

i've put forward the argument that i believe that the 'organization' is financially effectively bleeding itself dry - it is actually financially imploding.. i believe that over the last 45 or so years, in particular, it has evolved from a relatively 'lean machine' into what is now a huge unwieldy organization.

as an organization grows i would expect increased efficiency through by both economies of scale, and advances in technology.. how has the watchtower organization fared?....

slimboyfat

Very interesting thanks for putting this together.

I made a graph of part of this data a few months ago.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5190118671384576/three-graphs-connection-watch-towers-current-financial-situation

38

If the WT is a "money making machine"...who gets the money?

by NikL in

jw
friends

i've seen claims over the years that wt is in the real estate, book publishing business and is a for profit enterprise at it's core.. can those of you that believe this to be the case tell me who benefits from all this wealth?.

the governing body lives in relatively humble conditions no?.

i've been curious about this for a while.

slimboyfat

Sorry wrong thread.

57

Jehovah's Witness / ex-JW Suicide Rate?

by Simon in

it's no secret that both remaining a jw or leaving the wts can take a toll on mental health.

some will suffer from depression and ultimately some will have thoughts of suicide and a few will succumb to those.. but i don't recall ever seeing any hard stats or studies on it though.

i'm sure we all know of some people who have committed suicide but i don't know if, because you may have loose association with a much larger pool of people through the religion, that this only seems higher or maybe not be actually higher than the general population.. what i mean is, you go to a kh here there maybe 100-150 people, you attend circuit and district conventions with many tens of thousands - if any one person commits suicide then you likely hear about it and it becomes part of the anecdotal 'evidence' that is then put forward as a fact that there is a higher rate ... but is there?.

slimboyfat

I really rate Bergman at all. It's best not to quote his studies on mental health because he doesn't have any credibility.

His other work suggests he might be at home in a Fox News studio.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Darwin-Effect-Influence-Communism-Capitalism/dp/0890518378/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

57

Jehovah's Witness / ex-JW Suicide Rate?

by Simon in

it's no secret that both remaining a jw or leaving the wts can take a toll on mental health.

some will suffer from depression and ultimately some will have thoughts of suicide and a few will succumb to those.. but i don't recall ever seeing any hard stats or studies on it though.

i'm sure we all know of some people who have committed suicide but i don't know if, because you may have loose association with a much larger pool of people through the religion, that this only seems higher or maybe not be actually higher than the general population.. what i mean is, you go to a kh here there maybe 100-150 people, you attend circuit and district conventions with many tens of thousands - if any one person commits suicide then you likely hear about it and it becomes part of the anecdotal 'evidence' that is then put forward as a fact that there is a higher rate ... but is there?.

slimboyfat

Carl Olof Jonsson referred to the work of scholars in relevant disciplines and built his case on that. I don't think he claimed to produce new findings from his own research on the primary data.

Rolf Furuli on the other hand is proficient in Hebrew, Akkadian, Ugaritic and goodness knows what else. And yet other experts don't rate his work on chronology.

19

What would happen to the assets of the JW organisation if the cult went into meltdown?

by Half banana in

what if the jw org became publicly exposed as a repressive and harmful cult working to the detriment of society, the membership dropped away and the gb woke up to reality and quit .

what would happen to the worldwide property and investments of the wtbts and allied companies?

where would the money go then?

slimboyfat

When a Presbyterian congregation in the west of Scotland closed down because of declining membership, they donated their remaining funds to the local hospice. I wonder if any JW congregation has ever done that.

http://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/news/14821523.Greenock_church_s___20k_parting_gift_is_Godsend/

13

Fade Advice Please

by Zeds Dead in

i got reinstated in the last month and had my record cards sent to a new congregation.

i went to a few meetings until i heard the cards had been sent and now i am looking to do a complete fade, no longer go at all.

the new congregation does not know me well and further away from where i live so i am hoping they will give up trying to make contact quickly.. any advice on do's and dont's and what to expect?.

slimboyfat

It would help if you explained why you are going about it like this, because it really depends on family or whatever your objectives are.

because the Elders will get someone you trust to try and get the information out of you

This happened to me. I wouldn't have believed it until they did it.

57

Jehovah's Witness / ex-JW Suicide Rate?

by Simon in

it's no secret that both remaining a jw or leaving the wts can take a toll on mental health.

some will suffer from depression and ultimately some will have thoughts of suicide and a few will succumb to those.. but i don't recall ever seeing any hard stats or studies on it though.

i'm sure we all know of some people who have committed suicide but i don't know if, because you may have loose association with a much larger pool of people through the religion, that this only seems higher or maybe not be actually higher than the general population.. what i mean is, you go to a kh here there maybe 100-150 people, you attend circuit and district conventions with many tens of thousands - if any one person commits suicide then you likely hear about it and it becomes part of the anecdotal 'evidence' that is then put forward as a fact that there is a higher rate ... but is there?.

slimboyfat

We don't have good data on the subject. But it's worth noting that a major reason we don't have good data is because the WT leadership has consistently prevented researchers from gathering this sort of information on members.

We know that the WT organisation gathers all sorts of information about the membership through circuit overseers in particular. I think it's reasonable to assume they have surveyed their membership at various times on various levels on mental health and suicide issues. If the results had shown the organisation in a favourable light they probably wouldn't prevent others from gathering the information.