ringo5

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Posts by ringo5

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  8

  reexamine.org down?

  by undercover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've tried a couple of times to go to reexamine.org today and it's not coming up.

  anyone else having trouble getting to it?.

  aim i spelun it rite?

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  ringo5

  this one works also Quotes
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  240

  Desolation of Jerusalem

  by Alwayshere in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  using the wts's dates in the january 1.1965 page 29 : nabonidus= 17 years.

  add 17 to 539=556, neriglissar==4 years, add 4 to 556=560, evil-marduk=2 years, add 2 to560=562, nebuchadnezzar=43 years, add 43 to 562 =605.

  the bible at 2 kings 25: 8 and 9 says "in the 19th year of king nebuchadnezzar the servant of the king came to jerusallem and burned the house of jehovah.

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  ringo5

  If Jeremiah were alive today he would preach publicly the wonder of God's organization praising Jehovah and admire how the NWT has made good use of his original prophetic book.

  
  
  
  YOU SOLD IT?
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  13

  Was Jesus predestined to die?

  by ringo5 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  according to wts, the first prophecy in the bible (gen 3:15) applies to jesus and was partially fulfilled when the he died on the cross stake.

  so how did jesus or anyone that had anything to do with his death have any freewill if he was predestined to die?

  say the jews had decided they kinda liked him or thought he was at least entertaining and decided to let him hang around?

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  ringo5

  JW's say that Jehovah exercised his ability to see into the future. He doesn't have to affect the future, just look into it. That it happens to work out exactly like he needs it to is beside the point, it seems.
  
  Does that help?

  
  
  Yeah well I remember the radio analogy - jah can tune his radio to the FUTURE band and find out how things are going to work out. He only turns on his radio when he really needs to, (maybe it runs the batteries out) and doesn't call the station for requests or for free tickets to see Cheap Trick!
  
  But this doesn't really change the problem from the predestination side. If its in the future and jah heard it on his radio, how can it turn out any different? If it did, would jah take his radio back to Future shop and ask for a refund?
  
  

  Sorry, but I had to smile when you said, "All I'm really looking for is some Christian to explain this to me in the most logical way possible". Dude, make up your mind! Do you want it from the Bible, -OR- do you want it logical? :-)

  
  
  
  Yeah I know it's either illogical or not. Is there such thing as Jehovalogical?
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  13

  Was Jesus predestined to die?

  by ringo5 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  according to wts, the first prophecy in the bible (gen 3:15) applies to jesus and was partially fulfilled when the he died on the cross stake.

  so how did jesus or anyone that had anything to do with his death have any freewill if he was predestined to die?

  say the jews had decided they kinda liked him or thought he was at least entertaining and decided to let him hang around?

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  ringo5

  T.S.

  also, if jesus had "chosen" not to die, then i would like to know from xians how *that* world would be any different from *this* world.

  
  
  good question, looks like only 1 christian responded here and this wasn't dealt with...
  
  shazard:

  somebody is not understanding predestination. have you playet role playing games (not on computers). there you have free will to do whatever you like, but anyway gamemaster can tell what will happen even it hapenned. so you still have free will, and still you are predestinated to do something game master have planned!

  
  
  Since predestination isn't mentioned in the bible, where are you getting your definition from? I really don't understand your analogy either, I'm just going by that prophecy that infers jesus is going to die. was his only choice how it would happen I'm looking for?
  
  
  gaiagirl
  

  without a doubt, jesus would have died within the next 70 years or so, no matter what had happened.

  
  
  I agree with all of your points, but dying of old age would have thrown out the perfection idea and certainly the ransom.
  
  Spectrum
  
  

  i remember being told by a jw that had the jews accepted christ his kingdom would have started in jerusalem 2000 years ago and he would have stuck around long enough for his kingdom to be established. that implies that he wasn't predestined to die and we would never have been born.

  
  
  I never heard that from any dubs before. One of the 2 reasons he came to earth supposedly was to give his life for a ransom. So what would that scenario have done for all us poor sinning shmucks?
  
  All I'm really looking for is some Christian to explain this to me in the most logical way possible. I want to see that I did at least have some plausible way of looking at this so I feel less like an idiot to have believed this for so long. For the life of me I don't remember how I used to rationalize this stuff before as a dub.
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  10

  Former MORMON has a question ...

  by thechurchisNOTtrue in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i escaped from a mormon cult and am involved with a website that educates people about mormonism.

  i run a "podcast" where internet users and subscribers can hear an audio commentary each month.

  we try to balance our production with humor, historical facts, cautions, guests, etc.

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  ringo5

  I enjoyed reading "Under the Banner of Heaven" by Jon Krakauer and I recommended the book to my Mom hoping she'd see the similarities but I think she was onto me, so I couldn't elicit much of a review out of her...
  
  nice site by the way, I thought Russel was a bit out there but Joseph had wild imagination too:
  
  
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  13

  Was Jesus predestined to die?

  by ringo5 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  according to wts, the first prophecy in the bible (gen 3:15) applies to jesus and was partially fulfilled when the he died on the cross stake.

  so how did jesus or anyone that had anything to do with his death have any freewill if he was predestined to die?

  say the jews had decided they kinda liked him or thought he was at least entertaining and decided to let him hang around?

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  ringo5

  According to WTS, the first prophecy in the bible (Gen 3:15) applies to Jesus and was partially fulfilled when the he died on the cross stake. So how did Jesus or anyone that had anything to do with his death have any freewill if he was predestined to die?
  
  Say the Jews had decided they kinda liked him or thought he was at least entertaining and decided to let him hang around? Wait! That would mean God's prophecy wouldn't come true!
  
  Jehovah would then have to go down to his myriads of angels and ask for volunteers to do some sacrificing because his firstborn wasn't playing ball?
  
  Or are prophecies completely different than predestination?
  
  Has this been dealt with by any dub literature that anyone's aware of?
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  23

  5 minute guide to knowing if Jehovah's Witnesses have the truth

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have just posted a new article at http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/5min.htm that is copied below.

  can you please check it and make any suggestions?

  a few bits may not make total sense as they are links to other pages in the website.

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  ringo5

  Sorry about that, I just looked at the Lulu printed version of the "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" book, and it says 1920 as the copyright date. Would this be the first mention of this 1925 prediction though, I'm not sure.
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  23

  5 minute guide to knowing if Jehovah's Witnesses have the truth

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have just posted a new article at http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/5min.htm that is copied below.

  can you please check it and make any suggestions?

  a few bits may not make total sense as they are links to other pages in the website.

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  ringo5

  Nice job, only thing I would question is that part about 1925 being a belief they held in 1919.
  
  I think Rutherford introduced that later (1922?).
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  12

  The Preaching Work

  by TheListener in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  david2002 and i discussed this issue a little bit in a previous thread and agreed to discuss is in another thread.. david2002 i have created the thread but i will leave the first post to you.. please explain your viewpoint on door to door preaching and its biblical foundation.

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  ringo5

  This may be off topic, but I think they would have more success completely shutting down the publishing and door knocking work.
  
  
  Then when those rocks start crying out, can you imagine the increase then!!
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  307

  SERVICE REPORT 2005 : WATCHTOWER FEB 1ST 2006

  by BluesBrother in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have had a quick look and found no references to this, so - here goes..as in the mag we picked up on sunday.. worldwide % increase over 2004 = 1.3%.

  memorial partakers 8524 (compared to 8570 in 2004).

  most european and nth american lands show pretty static figs - britain 1% increase, canada 0%, germany 0%, france 1%, usa 0%... but spare a thought for the inhabitants of zambia where 1 person in 90 is a reporting witness, must be hell going down to the local market!

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  ringo5

  Here's hoping David is still reading:
  
  David 2002 said:
  
  

  I already cited several WT sources that clearly state that the WTS is not infallible, that they are prone to make mistakes, and that they are not inspired like the prophets or the apostles.

  
  
  You also could have used this passage:
  
  *** g93 3/22 4 Why So Many False Alarms? ***
  Jehovah’s Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus’ second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions ‘in the name of Jehovah.’ Never did they say, ‘These are the words of Jehovah.
  
  
  However, even if they never preface their predictions and interpretations with this exact phrases HEAR YE, HEAR YE, THESE ARE THE WORDS OF JEHOVAH!, what is left in the readers mind after reading a quote like the following:
  
  *** w57 6/15 370 Overseers of Jehovah's People ***
  7 Let us now unmistakably identify Jehovah’s channel of communication for our day, that we may continue in his favor. Listen to the inspired answer to the situation, in Matthew 24:45-47 (NW): “………..It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the “slave” as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision.
  
  What is a reader to think! The very language being used here is meant to leave no doubt in the reader's mind, that what we say, God wanted to say himself. How could the reader not believe everything they said or wrote from that point on, as he would the very voice of God?
  
  And once this relationship starts, what happens when their directions turn out to be somewhat less than truthful?
  
  Would it be help build their faith in God?
  
  Would God approve of his name and reputation being dragged into these kind of representations?
  
  
  P.S. That was a great post, Jeff...