today's watchtower study (feb 15, p17) seeks to reassure jws that jehovah will take action against all opposers to the wtbts.. it states: "unscrupulous men slander jehovah's witnesses, branding them a 'dangerous cult'.
god is aware of their actions-and these will not go unpunished.
"(para 11).
Ozziepost,
They wrote:
"Jehovah's witnesses R&F are exhorted to remain faithful and to 'seek Jehovah'. How? Paragraph 5 states that "'Seeking Jehovah' today involves developing and maintaining a warm personal relationship with him in association with his earthly organisation."
So, now we know who our mediator is.
Now we
this in response to logical's post 'hands up those who love jehovah' it was an interesting question, but i feel that my 'response' is more suited to another topic.
i think that one should refer to the bible to answer it though:.
exodus 12:29. jehovah kills all the firstborn of egypt.
Waiting,
Are you asking for an explanation of the Society's view of Armageddon? I don't remember reading anywhere in the bible where there is a description given of what will happen at Armageddon. Did I miss something? I'm not sure that the Witnesses even know what Armageddon really is all about. It could very well be about Jehovah's dealing with them as verse 12 of Revelation 16 talks about a 'bowl being poured out on the great river Euphrates.' This river ran through Babylon of old, so this could be a reference to the one who proves to be "Babylon the Great" in our day.
bjc
just found out tonite that my congregation currently has 13 bible studies happening at the moment.
and 11 of them are family member bible studys.
does anyone else on this board know the number of bible studys for their cong?
Kes152,
I think that you will find if you consider verse 9 of 1 Corinthians 13, that the witnesses are taking verse 10 out of context. Verse 9 reads: “For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially.” Paul was here saying that the first century Christians did not fully understand the prophetic scriptures (partial knowledge) so that their applications of prophesy was only a partial explanations of these scriptures. The prophetic scriptures were not fulfilled in their entirety upon 1st century Christians. There was only a partial fulfillment.
Revelation 10:7 says: “But in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to blow his trumpet, the sacred secret of God according to the good news which he declared to his own slaves the prophets is indeed brought to a finish.” This means that the complete fulfillment of these prophetic scriptures will occur in our day.
Paul was not referring to whether the written word was perfect or imperfect as the case may be. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not to this day understand anymore of the prophetic scriptures than did Paul in his day. To say that because the entire Bible had not been written down in Paul’s day and use this statement as the explanation for Paul’s statement that ‘his knowledge was partial’ is ludicrous. Paul and other 1st century writer were dealing with applying the already written scriptures to Jesus and themselves to explain what Jehovah was doing. And Paul was saying that he simply did not see the complete fulfillment of these written scriptures in his day. This complete fulfillment would then obviously be for another day and time.
bjc
this in response to logical's post 'hands up those who love jehovah' it was an interesting question, but i feel that my 'response' is more suited to another topic.
i think that one should refer to the bible to answer it though:.
exodus 12:29. jehovah kills all the firstborn of egypt.
Logical,
Good point! Just to add to your thoughts, 1 John 4:18 says: "There is no fear in love, but perfect love throws fear outside, because fear exercises a restraint. Indeed, he that is under fear has not been made perfect in love."
Dreamer:
If one has the type of fear (it's more like fright) that you are projecting with the scriptures you quoted, then this individual will never come to know Jehovah in order to learn to love him as he should. I think that every human knows that Jehovah has the ability to destroy all life on this planet if he so chooses, not only that but he, as Logical stated, has the right because he is the lifegiver. And if he so chooses, he can resurrect every human whose life he has taken.
The most important point is not whether God kills humans, but whether individuals believe that they are under obligation to obey their creator, to do what he says is right and so make a good name for themselves with Him.
Or, are we, as humans, in a position to find fault with God? At Job 40:1,2, (NIV) Jehovah asks this question: "Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him? Let him who accuses God answer him!" Do you know anyone who can do this?
bjc
is this verse not talking of jesus?.
if not please tell me.. if so, he's been given some pretty interesting names don't you think?.
does this not 'hint' that jesus is who evangelical christians believe he is?.
Hi 1ofMany,
Have you read Jesus' words at John 10:31-36, where he quotes from Psalms 82:6 in verses 34? Note that Jesus has reference to the rulers of Israel. Did not Jehovah tell Moses that he would be "God" to Aaron at Exodus 4:16, which says: "And he must speak for you to the people; and it must occur that he will serve as a mouth to you, and you will serve as God to him?" Therefore, a human can be referred to as God in certain circumstances and it not be considered that this individual is the Almighty God Jehovah. There are 'many gods and many lords' as Paul tells us but Jehovah is the one judging all of them as Psalms 82:1 says: "God is stationing himself in the assembly of the Divine One; In the middle of the gods he judges."
bjc
i've heard many people tell me about bible prophesy.
if the bible can predict future events then it stands to reason that those events are predetermined and man has no choices in this world.
think about all the choices you've made in your life and how different life for you would be if you had done things differently.
Reigninhell,
"Logically, Jehovah declaring everthing in creation "good" makes all our sins "good". Therefore why would we be punished for doing exactly what we are created to do?!?"
Wouldn't it depend on when this statement was made? If it was made before sin was introduced, then it would mean that the standard for what was expected of humans was determined. If it was made after sin was committed, then you have a point.
in order to qualify as spiritual israel there has to be certain fundamental characteristics or basic truths.
these basic truths are revealed in the law covenant given by moses.
and can be traced down from the nation of israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time.
Emiliano,
I am not a JW and have not been one since 1991.
in order to qualify as spiritual israel there has to be certain fundamental characteristics or basic truths.
these basic truths are revealed in the law covenant given by moses.
and can be traced down from the nation of israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time.
JR,
Now that was a mouthful!!!
in order to qualify as spiritual israel there has to be certain fundamental characteristics or basic truths.
these basic truths are revealed in the law covenant given by moses.
and can be traced down from the nation of israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time.
JR,
You do see the fallacy his argument, don't you? Every reference made to ‘Israel’ in the Bible he assumes refers to ‘natural Israel’ in spite of the fact that he knows that the name Israel, as of the first century, was no longer synonymous with the natural descendants of Abraham through Jacob. It became aligned with anyone, Jew or Gentile, who demonstrated the faith of Abraham. Abraham’s faith was of such proportions that he was called a ‘friend of God.’ Therefore Paul explains in Romans chapter 4 that all who exercise faith like Abraham’s would be considered ‘his seed,’ hence fulfilling the promise that Abraham would be ‘a father of many nations.’
Throughout all of Israel’s history, their receiving the blessing as Abraham’s seed was always dependent on their obedience to Jehovah’s laws. Even from the beginning, almost as soon as they were brought out of Egypt, they showed their propensity towards disobedience. I think you know the story. Moses even said of them, as recorded at Deuteronomy 31:27: “I well know your rebelliousness and your stiff neck. If while I am yet alive with you today, you have proved rebellious in behavior toward Jehovah, then how much more so after my death!” Verse 29 further says: “For I well know that after my death you will without fail act ruinously, and you will certainly turn aside from the way about which I have commanded you; and calamity will be bound to befall you at the close of the days, because you will do what is bad in the eyes of Jehovah so as to offend him by the works of your hands.” How right he was!
Fifteen hundred or more years later, Jesus has to tell them “the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation producing its fruit.” And this is exactly what happened, the calamity that Moses spoke of. They lost the opportunity that had been originally opened to them alone, that is, to become a “nation of priest, a holy nation.” This particular nation, a new nation, was now comprised of both Jews and Gentiles, mostly Gentiles as so few Jews took advantage of what had been offered to them. The mere fact that Gentiles were allowed to partake of Jehovah’s offer show conclusively that natural Israel had forfeited their opportunity and it would never be offered to them again, as a nation. They have put themselves in the unenviable position of pagan nations being able to point their fingers at them and say “What fools you were to turn down such a golden opportunity. We would never have done that had this offer been made to us!” And Jesus himself vouches for this as he said,
“..…if the powerful works had taken place in Tyre and Sidon that took place in you, they would long ago have repented in sackcloth and ashes. Consequenty I say to you, it will be more endurable for Tyre and Sidon on Judgement Day than for you.” (Matthew 11:21.22) Why? Because they are still continuing in their disobedience as Moses predicted. Paul said of them at 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16: “For you became imitators, brothers, of the congregations of God that are in Judea in union with Christ Jesus, because you also began suffering at the hands of your own countrymen the same things as they also are suffering at the hands of Jews, who killed even the Lord Jesus and the prophets and persecuted us. Furthermore, they are not pleasing God, but are against the interests of all men, as they try to hinder us from speaking to people of the nations that these might be saved, with the result that they always fill up the measure of their sins. But his wrath has at length come upon them.” They ‘always fill up the measure of their sin’ show that they were still as Moses described them 1500 years earlier, disobedient, sinning to the max!
The scriptures in Ezekiel that he quoted were never fulfilled upon natural Israel and have not been so to this day. The kingdom has been taken away from them and will not be returned to this nation. These scriptures will be fulfilled upon another ‘Israel!”
Jehovah determines who will be the recipient of his mercy and blessings. (Romans chapter 9) He is not hogtied by any natural descent claim or any other such human right. He proved this by his selecting Jacob to carry the birthright rather than Esau, who was the first-born son. Esau had God’s disapproval because ‘he did not appreciate sacred things.’ Jehovah would not allow someone like Esau to be in charge of this ‘sacred’ matter, as he will not allow faithless natural Israel to be in charge of his kingdom. Hebrews 11:6 attests to this. It says: “Without faith it is impossible to please God.” Besides this, Jehovah is the one who determines who will be called the ‘seed of Abraham’ as John said at Matthew 3:9: “And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘As a father we have Abraham.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.” Yes, Jehovah can manufacture a seed and use it to fulfill his promise to Abraham.
What are your thoughts?
in order to qualify as spiritual israel there has to be certain fundamental characteristics or basic truths.
these basic truths are revealed in the law covenant given by moses.
and can be traced down from the nation of israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time.
Emiliano,
1. Since you have Jehovah's e-mail address, why don't you ask him to explain to you why he inspired Paul to write at Galatians 3:29, this. "Moreover, If you belong to christ, you are really Abraham's seed, heirs with reference to a promise." This was directed to Gentiles.
2. Yes, Israel screwed up and they lost the opportunity to fulfill Exodus 19:6 to 'become a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.'
3. Israel is paying only for their continued disobedience.
4. No, death acquitted Israel of their sin against the Law Covenant. They currently do not have a covenant with Jehovah as they rejected the New Covenant. Jehovah therefore has no obligation to do anything for them.
