sharin' the love.... here is my son, dave with bailey 4 and zoey (almost 2) at a drive in movie... and then bailey and zoey and then bailey.
proud grandma here...... coffee .
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Hi Coffee!
Thanks for sharing the pictures. I have been wondering how Ali is still faring. You were an inspiration to me on the juicing--I've been doing that with some success, too.
It's good to hear that things are going so well in your family. It was great to have a word from Outaservice here, too.
Keep up the good spirit.
Blessings,
~Binadub (aka Ros, aka ... :-)
thoughtful christians including scientists like francis collins and kenneth miller accept the evidence for evolution unconditionally.
the only thing that distinguishes their understanding of life from the views of dawkins is that they believe god planned and started the process intentionally.. just a word about the subtle but vital distinction between "theistic evolution" and "intelligent design".... over-simplifications alert - intelligent design is creationism in disguise.
it is a modern twist on the "paley's watch" argument.
Cofty:
This is a very time-consuming topic if you really get into genuine scientific knowledge and theory (in the popular sense as well as the scientific). And it generally gets muddled with arguments by too many pretending to know more than they do. If it can be--as you say--respectful, it can be an interesting discussion and people on both sides learn.
I don't know how much I can contribute or how much I will try, but for starters I disagree with you that ID is creationism. I know that is a popular concept among skeptics, but from what I can discover about it, ID does not reject evolution nor common ancestry theory. What they challenge is that evolution occurred by "blind" random chance as opposed to occuring on purpose directed by a supreme intelligence. And imo they offer some very challenging scientific evidence. If you can refute it, that would be interesting.
It is true that ID and "theistic evolutionists" like Collins have some disagreements about Darwinian evolution versus ID evolution, but the differences between ID theists and [what I'll call] Darwinian theists is very different than the differences between theist evolution and Creationists.
Here is a link to ID's rebuttal to Collins specifically. It gives--I think--a little clearer picture of ID's precept:
~Binadub
on my introduction post a few people expressed interest in how the worldwide church of god (wwcg) imploded.
i think maybe in hopes something similar will happen with the jws.
i think the jws will also eventually experience a meltdown but probably not in the same way since the power structure was a bit different.
cog_survivor:
He's my uncle.
Interesting thing is I didn't know about his WWCoG affiliation until after I left the WT religion--only that they had moved to Pasadena and he was a "big shot" in some religion my mother told me.
Because of this relationship, I was able to attend a couple of regional conferences as his guest that was not otherwise open to the public.
I also had lunch in the executive dining room at Ambassador College once. All of this during Tkach's reign.
We had an interesting brief discussion about Babylon the Great one time.
~Binadub
on my introduction post a few people expressed interest in how the worldwide church of god (wwcg) imploded.
i think maybe in hopes something similar will happen with the jws.
i think the jws will also eventually experience a meltdown but probably not in the same way since the power structure was a bit different.
cog_survivor:
Did you happen to know Leroy Neff?
~Binadub
on my introduction post a few people expressed interest in how the worldwide church of god (wwcg) imploded.
i think maybe in hopes something similar will happen with the jws.
i think the jws will also eventually experience a meltdown but probably not in the same way since the power structure was a bit different.
That was my understanding, too, back in the 1960s. I think the idea that he had been a JW may have evolved a little later, but I could be wrong.
~Binadub
note: i found the following experience where someone (rob) applied captives of a concepts chapter 21 when trying to help his father-in-law see some of the interesting he learned from the proclaimers book.. __________________________________________.
this past wednesday night, the 6th.
i met with my father-in-law.
Hi Don!!! (It's me, Ros )
I've been wondering how you are doing lately. Glad you posted here and I saw it.
slimboyfat:
Crisis of Conscience has not gone out of print, and you can get paperback for $29.95.
But for some reason you have to know to search for "Crisis of Conscience Cynthia Franz" or "Cynthia Franz Amazon" to bring up this URL on Amazon or you won't find it.
They are still depleting the stock of Commentary Press, but it is my understanding that when that has been done, Amazon will "print on demand" on-going.
~Binadub
on my introduction post a few people expressed interest in how the worldwide church of god (wwcg) imploded.
i think maybe in hopes something similar will happen with the jws.
i think the jws will also eventually experience a meltdown but probably not in the same way since the power structure was a bit different.
cog_survivor:
I didn't realize the WWCoG didn't allow women to wear makeup. Interesting.
I used to watch Ted Garner on TV, and we thought the WWCoG read Watchtowers and got some of their teachings from the Witnesses. I was impressed with their TV productions. Actually, it turns out that in some cases it may have been the other way around. I've been told that they were teaching the end in 1975 before the Watchtower was.
Did you happen to know some of the other leaders of the church at Ambassador College in Pasadena when Tkatch was the successor of HWA?
Thanks for posting.
~Binadub
many of us have heard of pascal's wager.
basically that you can bet on god and receive an infinite reward, or you can bet against him and live an easier life for 80 years.
this guy proves that the wager is really misstated.. .
As I understand the wager, if you believe in God and there is no God, you'll die content in your belief and never know you were wrong.
This fellow was evidently not a JW/exJW, because his reasoning is against the fundamentalist "all-loving, omnipotent" God, which imo is not biblical.
Also, anyone who has been a JW should have the knowledge to refute the orthodox doctrines of "hell" and "soul" as not being biblical (but I realize, many did not, especially born-ins).
So, if you don't believe in God, and there is no God, you will never know that you were right.
If you don't believe in God, and there is a God, you will either never know you were wrong
OR
you will be resurrected with "the rest of the dead" for judgment, and you will be judged out of the scrolls according to your works/deeds/what you have done (Rev. 20:12-13--depending on the translation); not according to your beliefs.
So yes, the scripture agrees with the speaker, it will be fair.
~Binadub
i just thought you should know that mrs cedars has finally taken the plunge and joined the forum.
she was able to log on for the first time yesterday.. though we both "awakened" at different stages, mrs cedars was very supportive and non-judgmental when i first began exploring my beliefs from a critical standpoint.
she is currently in the process of reading crisis of conscience and aquainting herself with some of the facts of witness history that were hitherto unknown.
Welcome to the world, MrsCedars. And congratulations to the 'Mr' Cedars on having you join him. That makes it so much better for "Awake"ing from the Lie.
As for English, you seem to have a good handle on it. Some Europeans speak better English than I do, and it IS my first language.
Warm regards,
~Binadub
the very first followers of jesus were drawn to him no doubt for a variety of reasons, but stayed mainly because they had taken on board the faith that he held.. they witnessed him and his faith in action, so they came to believe as he did.. long after his death, and the death of most, if not all, of those that knew him, this gradually transformed from holding the same faith as him, to having a belief in him.
this resulted in claims for his divinity etc.
my question to you is, is it not more important that you hold the same faith as he did, rather than the much vaunted belief in him, because you cannot be "in union" with him if your faith differs from his, surely ?.
There are Christians on this forum?
~Binadub
