Posts by Magick

25

Yep, I Gave A Public Talk

by mavie in

can we see the fulfillment of this today?

these are just a few of the prophecies recorded in the bible which have seen their fulfillment.

another evidence of divine authorship can be found in the practical guidance the bible gives.

Magick

i'd have gone to that talk just to see mavie....but, i woulda worn my stevie nicks outfit.

34

JW say df/shunning is Scriptural...How do we get around those Scriptures?

by oompa in

paul of course is the mainstay of this, and i really like saying "hey lets stick to what jesus taught" but even he condemned the pharacees and others in a considerably judgemental manner.

so what to say to my elder/dad who won't speak to my df son?

like when paul says to not eat with them, don't say a greeting to them etc....how do we get around that?

JW say df/shunning is Scriptural...How do we get around those Scriptures?

by oompa in

paul of course is the mainstay of this, and i really like saying "hey lets stick to what jesus taught" but even he condemned the pharacees and others in a considerably judgemental manner.

so what to say to my elder/dad who won't speak to my df son?

like when paul says to not eat with them, don't say a greeting to them etc....how do we get around that?

Magick

w81 9/15 pp. 26-31 disfellowshipping-how to view it

DISFELLOWSHIPED

RELATIVESNOTLIVINGATHOME

18

The second situation that we need to consider is that involving a disfellowshiped or disassociated relative who is not in the immediate family circle or living at one’s home. Such a person is still related by blood or marriage, and so there may be some limited need to care for necessary family matters. Nonetheless, it is not as if he were living in the same home where contact and conversation could not be avoided. We should keep clearly in mind the Bible’s inspired direction: "Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person . . . , not even eating with such a man."—1 Cor. 5:11.

19

Consequently, Christians related to such a disfellowshiped person living outside the home should strive to avoid needless association, even keeping business dealings to a minimum. The reasonableness of this course becomes apparent from reports of what has occurred where relatives have taken the mistaken view, ‘Though he is disfellowshiped, we are related and so can treat him the same as before.’ From one area comes this:

"One person who was disfellowshiped was related to about one third of the congregation. All of his relations continued to associate with him."

And a highly respected Christian elder writes:

"In our area some disfellowshiped ones with large families have been met, as they enter the lobby of the Kingdom Hall, with a fanfare of backslapping and handshaking (even though the disfellowshiped one was known by them to be still living immorally). I feel a deep concern that those who have been disfellowshiped need to see that their course is hated by Jehovah and by his people and that they should feel a real need to become genuinely repentant. What will help these disfellowshiped ones to change when they are continually greeted by all in their large families who know of their practices?"

20

There must have been congregations in the first century where many were related. But when someone was disfellowshiped, were all the relatives to carry on as normal as long as they did not discuss Scriptural matters with the disfellowshiped person? No. Otherwise the congregation would not really be applying the command: "Remove the wicked man from among yourselves."—1 Cor. 5:13.

21

Great care needs to be exercised that a person’s situation as a disfellowshiped sinner is neither overlooked nor minimized. As the sons of Korah well demonstrated, our chief loyalty must be to Jehovah and his theocratic arrangement. We can be sure that when we uphold his standards and prefer association with his organized people, rather than with wrongdoers, we will have his protection and blessing.—Ps. 84:10-12.

SOCIAL

GATHERINGSANDDISFELLOWSHIPEDRELATIVES

22

Normally, relatives are often together at meals, picnics, family reunions or other social gatherings. But when someone has unrepentantly pursued sin and has had to be disfellowshiped, he may cause difficulties for his Christian relatives in regard to such gatherings. While they realize that they are still related to him, they do not want to ignore Paul’s advice that faithful Christians should "quit mixing in company" with an expelled sinner.

23

There is no point in looking for some rule as to family members being at gatherings where a disfellowshiped relative might be present. This would be something for those concerned to resolve, in keeping with Paul’s counsel. (1 Cor. 5:11) And yet it should be appreciated that if a disfellowshiped person is going to be at a gathering to which nonrelative Witnesses are invited, that may well affect what others do. For example, a Christian couple might be getting married at a Kingdom Hall. If a disfellowshiped relative comes to the Kingdom Hall for the wedding, obviously he could not be in the bridal party there or "give away" the bride. What, though, if there is a wedding feast or reception? This can be a happy social occasion, as it was in Cana when Jesus attended. (John 2:1, 2) But will the disfellowshiped relative be allowed to come or even be invited? If he was going to attend, many Christians, relatives or not, might conclude that they should not be there, to eat and associate with him, in view of Paul’s directions at 1 Corinthians 5:11.

24

Thus, sometimes Christians may not feel able to have a disfellowshiped or disassociated relative present for a gathering that normally would include family members. Still, the Christians can enjoy the association of the loyal members of the congregation, having in mind Jesus’ words: "Whoever does the will of God, this one is my brother and sister and mother."—Mark 3:35.

25

The fact is that when a Christian gives himself over to sin and has to be disfellowshiped, he forfeits much: his approved standing with God; membership in the happy congregation of Christians; sweet fellowship with the brothers, including much of the association he had with Christian relatives. (1 Pet. 2:17) The pain he has caused may even survive him.

26

Should he die while disfellowshiped, arrangements for his funeral may be a problem. His Christian relatives may like to have had a talk at the Kingdom Hall, if that is the local custom. But that would not be fitting for a person expelled from the congregation. If he had been giving evidence of repentance and wanting God’s forgiveness, such as by ceasing to practice sin and by attending Christian meetings, some brother’s conscience might allow him to give a Bible talk at the funeral home or grave site. Such Biblical comments about the condition of the dead provide a witness to unbelievers or comfort to the relatives. However, if the disfellowshiped person had still been advocating false teachings or ungodly conduct, even such a talk would not be appropriate.—2 John 9-11.

34

JW say df/shunning is Scriptural...How do we get around those Scriptures?

by oompa in

paul of course is the mainstay of this, and i really like saying "hey lets stick to what jesus taught" but even he condemned the pharacees and others in a considerably judgemental manner.

so what to say to my elder/dad who won't speak to my df son?

like when paul says to not eat with them, don't say a greeting to them etc....how do we get around that?

Magick

If you watch that video, you may see that the prosiding overseer (who's been an elder for 30 years) says it's ok to say "hi" or "hello" to a disfellowshipped person and/or talk about non-congregational stuff to a relative. He says that the quote from the 1950's watchtower publication was the work of "apostates" but the one from 1981 is ok. ...and that the society doesn't "shun" just DIS-Fellowships or (stops fellowshipping)

so here's a quote from a 1988 Watchtower...(which is less apostate than the 1981 watchtower)

w88 4/15 p. 28 Discipline That Can Yield Peaceable Fruit

WhatAboutRelatives?

11

God certainly realizes that carrying out his righteous laws about cutting off wrongdoers often involves and affects relatives. As mentioned above, when an Israelite wrongdoer was executed, no more family association was possible. In fact, if a son was a drunkard and a glutton, his parents were to bring him before the judges, and if he was unrepentant, the parents were to share in the just executing of him, ‘to clear away what is bad from the midst of Israel.’ (Deuteronomy 21:18-21) You can appreciate that this would not have been easy for them. Imagine, too, how the wrongdoer’s brothers, sisters, or grandparents felt. Yet, their putting loyalty to their righteous God before family affection could be lifesaving for them.

13

Cutting off from the Christian congregation does not involve immediate death, so family ties continue. Thus, a man who is disfellowshipped or who disassociates himself may still live at home with his Christian wife and faithful children. Respect for God’s judgments and the congregation’s action will move the wife and children to recognize that by his course, he altered the spiritual bond that existed between them. Yet, since his being disfellowshipped does not end their blood ties or marriage relationship, normal family affections and dealings can continue.

14

The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home. It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum, in line with the divine principle: "Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person [or guilty of another gross sin], . . . not even eating with such a man."—1 Corinthians 5:11.

15

Understandably, this may be difficult because of emotions and family ties, such as grandparents’ love for their grandchildren. Yet, this is a test of loyalty to God, as stated by the sister quoted on page 26. Anyone who is feeling the sadness and pain that the disfellowshipped relative has thus caused may find comfort and be encouraged by the example set by some of Korah’s relatives.—Psalm 84:10-12.

[Footnotes]

John here used khai´ro, which was a greeting like "good day" or "hello." (Acts 15:23; Matthew 28:9) He did not use a·spa´zo·mai (as in verse 13), which means "to enfold in the arms, thus to greet, to welcome" and may have implied a very warm greeting, even with an embrace. (Luke 10:4; 11:43; Acts 20:1, 37; 1 Thessalonians 5:26) So the direction at 2 John 11 could well mean not to say even "hello" to such ones.—See TheWatchtower of July 15, 1985, page 31.

For a discussion of a relative’s being disfellowshipped, see TheWatchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 26-31.

Though various individuals have brought suit, no court has rendered a judgment against Jehovah’s Witnesses over their Bible-based practice of shunning.*

819 F.2d 875 (9th Cir. 1987).

*Jehovah's Witnesses THEMSELVES have written that they practice shunning.

34

JW say df/shunning is Scriptural...How do we get around those Scriptures?

by oompa in

paul of course is the mainstay of this, and i really like saying "hey lets stick to what jesus taught" but even he condemned the pharacees and others in a considerably judgemental manner.

so what to say to my elder/dad who won't speak to my df son?

like when paul says to not eat with them, don't say a greeting to them etc....how do we get around that?

Magick

I found it interesting how this Prosiding Overseer danced around the definition of "disfellowshipping."

He said, "disfellowshipping is a congregational matter and not a family matter and that Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t use the word ‘shunning’".

and

He talks positively about disfellowshipping saying that “for every six or ten people you bring on here that have bad experiences [with disfellowshipping] I can bring a hundred people that have been disfellowshipped … who will say it is the best thing that happened in their life”.

11

Suggested "SAFE" Reading for Current Jehovah's Witnesses by Stan Milosevic

by Magick in

jw
friends

i don't know about you, but i grew up as a jehovah's witness during a time when there seemed to be no access to additional reading.

my family, devote jehovah's witnesses, discouraged reading anything but the society's publications.

except for the thousands of paperback romance novels my mother has read daily for over 50 years.

Magick

I don't know about you, but I grew up as a Jehovah's Witness during a time when there seemed to be NO access to additional reading. My family, devote Jehovah's Witnesses, discouraged reading anything BUT the Society's publications. Except for the thousands of paperback romance novels my mother has read daily for over 50 years.

I ran accross this website by Stan Milosevic, who has compiled a "theocratic library" of Jehovah's Witness friendly books that are "positive and upbuilding and pertain to our history, beliefs, and way of life." He states whether they were written by JWs or not.

Also, he apparently published a "value guide" to collecting older Watchtower publications. I do not know if it is still available, here is the link:

http://www.lulu.com/content/126821

I thought some on JWD might be interested in this list. Also, I found it of interest that a current JW who is "one of the preimere collectors of Society produced items" was allowed to reproduce Charles T. Russell's very first book Three Worlds - Or Plan of Redemption. (was this book reproduced EXACTLY as the original as it states?)

Have any of you read any of these books? If so, do you have comments on them?

22

An open letter to new posters who are here only to irk us--not for solace

by Pioneer Spit...oh, i mean Spirit in

jw
friends

first of all, happy thanksgiving!

my roast is going into the oven shortly; no dressing or stuffing here.

dear new posters who are here to irk us and not for solace,.

Magick

Anyone who writes "cant see the forest through the trees," is a JW, period.

Some current JWs who are feeling guilty or inactive, but still believe, are closet drinkers. I guess this kind of posting happens when a JW drinks and posts.

I personally have no problem with these posters, they can offer a little entertainment for this cynical apostate. I pick and choose my battles (if any) and I'd rather not get riled up over an uninformed, closed minded drunk. (I don't mind an open minded drunk LOL)

I feel it just goes with the territory. Plus, if a JW...(drunk or not) has found JWD then we are doing well. In time, this person may stumble accross some information that is hard to ignore. If not, oh well.

What I won't put up with is someone coming here and hurting those who are already hurting. Many new ones here have fresh wounds from their experiences and are wearing their hearts on their sleeves. They do not need nor deserve the name calling and insults.

That being said, it is a public forum and current, drunk JWs are welcome. If you don't like the thread, change the channel...there's plenty to choose from. If the person is being abusive, report them to a moderator. We should try not to be emotionally affected by a person that is just here to "play games with wicked apostates," or "teach us a lesson for leaving Jehovah."

I don't think we should push them away, but, don't let them get to you either.

just a thought,

~magicK

147

Secret Santa Ideas thread

by Angharad in

jw
friends

if everyone who is signed up for the sectret santa can post a few ideas of the sort of thing you like in here, when people receive their names they can come in here and look you up so get some ideas .

.

Magick

i got my name....now i'm a Secret Santa!! *dances around in her santa hat feeling really pagan*

i can't wait to start shopping!

since this is my first year, are we supposed to keep it totally secret? is it like anonymous santa?

23

Hi guys i'm a newbie

by The Dark Side in

jw
friends

hello i've been disfellowshipped for about three years, and no plans to go back to the matrix ( if u know what i mean ).

but my mother, and brothers are still inside.

any word of advice on how can i tell them the truth without them getting dissapointed?.

Magick

Hi Dark Side

alt

8

It's 3am, and it's snowing! Sweeeet. . .

by Pioneer Spit...oh, i mean Spirit in

hope i didn't wake anyone.

Magick

it's 4 am and what's snow?