Posts by Fleur

i was told today that an elder in a nearby congregation has just told another elder in his congregation that he saw we celebrated christmas last year.

seems he was doing a job on our street (he's a window washer, like all good jw elders) and saw our decorations.. several things bother me about that.. 1. no one could have seen any of our decorations by driving by.

we had no lights outside.

Fleur

ugh, mulan.

wish i knew what to say...just know that i love ya and if you need my ear at all you know where to find me lady! i hope the process (if there is one) will be as painless as possible.

hugs,

fleur

29

Pictures of My Bride

by D8TA in

jw
friends

still alive and having fun in aracaju (the kentucky of) brasil.

here are some pics of minha novia.

we will be getting married in a court first (in about 2 -4 weeks depending which window of opportunity with the court opens first), because i am an estrangerio or foriegner.

Fleur

what a gorgeous couple you make! she is extraordinary! :)

may you have long, happy years together and may your troubles be few!!!!

hugs

fleur

10

A child's innocent questions about shunning

by Fleur in

i wrote this about three years ago, i came across it today in some files and thought it was worth reposting for newbies.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.

one night last week, my five year old daughter couldn't fall asleep.

we could hear her upstairs as she tossed and turned a bit, then finally reappeared from her bedroom and crept down the stairs.

Fleur

thank you, everyone for your kind words. i figured if something in this post could help a newbie who has come here in the past 3 years since it was posted originally then it was worth revisiting.

hugs to everyone dealing with the barbaric shunning rule of JW's!!!

fleur

33

Put on your copywriter hats...it's ad time!!

by seattleniceguy in

jw
friends

okay, so i've been trying to figure out what i can do to help jws out.

obviously, no one can force someone to think, but sometimes a thought-provoking question can get the gears turning.

so i hit upon this idea of placing ads in a weekly newspaper here in seattle.

Fleur

Forget

About

Integrity,

The society

Helps protect molesters.

10

A child's innocent questions about shunning

by Fleur in

i wrote this about three years ago, i came across it today in some files and thought it was worth reposting for newbies.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.

one night last week, my five year old daughter couldn't fall asleep.

we could hear her upstairs as she tossed and turned a bit, then finally reappeared from her bedroom and crept down the stairs.

Fleur

I wrote this about three years ago, I came across it today in some files and thought it was worth reposting for newbies.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One night last week, my five year old daughter couldn't fall asleep.

We could hear her upstairs as she tossed and turned a bit, then finally reappeared from her bedroom and crept down the stairs.

"What's wrong?" I asked.

"I can't sleep, Mom, my mind is full of questions." she said, as she started to climb into my lap.

I looked at my husband, and his eyes widened. He turned off the television.

Moving over on the couch, we made a spot for her between us, and covered her with a blanket. She rested her head on my shoulder, and my husband and I settled in, not knowing what to expect.

"Why did Grandpa die?

She was referring to my ex-husband's dad, who died of cancer two years ago. I guess my ex never explained to her what he died of.

After that question was answered, her mind began to wander. I could tell that she was really bothered by something else, and that this wasn't just another usual attempt at stalling off bedtime.

As her innocent mind struggled to articulate the thoughts she was having, she rambled on a few minutes. Finally, she settled on a topic.

"I think Kate* is getting in love with David*. But I think she's sorry now." she announced, speaking of my cousin, and the guy that my ex-husband had introduced her to last year. This is the same one who I warned my family about, knowing that this kid had drug and alcohol problems previously.

Of course, they didn't believe me.

I had heard that he had recently been disfellowshipped for drug use. Needless to say, I didn't hear it from my mother, who said that I was 'evil' for 'trying to spread lies about the boy'.

"Why is she sorry?" I asked.

"Because he got in trouble, cause he didn't do what Jehovah likes."

I asked what she meant. She repeated that he "did something that Jehovah didn't like, and so Dad won't go out to eat with him or anything, or even talk to him anymore."

"Oh, how come?"

"Because he has to learn to go back to doing what Jehovah wants." she sighed. "Sometimes, you just gotta do what you gotta do."

I recognized that as one of my ex's pet phrases, and I pursued the issue.

"What did he do that was so bad that no one will talk to him?" I asked her. She replied,

"I don't know, but he has to be a shut out. So he will learn to do good things that Jehovah likes. So he can be in the new world."

I was stunned. I hadn't expected her to be saying such things so young. Her father has been influencing her more than I knew.

"Do you know how Aunt D.* and Uncle J* and Kate* and Jamie* and Allison* won't talk to me?"

"Yes."

"That's because they believe I did something that Jehovah didn't like. I'm disfellowshipped too."

She didn't know what to say. She looked at me a moment, then finally spoke again.

"Why, Mom?"

"I divorced your Dad and married Jack*. That's what they think is wrong. That's why they won't talk to me, or see me. I could go back, but I won't, because I don't believe its right to cut someone off from your family because they do or say something you don't agree with. If they're doing something bad that hurts them, they should get help, but their family should still love them."

She got a very sad look in her eyes and leaned her head against my chest.

"That just breaks my heart, Mom. I'll just have to love you more to replace them if they won't talk to you. I'll always talk to you."

She started to cry. She kept repeating that she didn't understand why they didn't love me anymore, that it was wrong because I was a good mommy and Jack was good, too.

I explained to her that she should realize that it wasn't just our family that was this way. That anyone who was a Witness would stop talking to me, her, or anyone else in exactly the same way if they ever did anything the Witnesses don't agree with.

I didn't have to say more than that, I could tell from the look on her face that she knew it, and believed me. She sat quietly for a long time, her brown eyes flooded with tears and a sadness that should never be seen on the face of someone so young.

I also told her that no matter what happens in her life, that I will always love her, never turn my back on her or walk away. She hugged me tighter, and brought up something that we'd seen on television a few weeks ago.

It had been a movie about a Bahraini princess who fell in love with an American marine stationed in Bahrain. Her mother found out that she had been seeing the marine, and gave a speech that could have been given by any Witness mother who found out her daughter loved a 'worldly' man. It ended with the mother proclaiming to the girl "You are no longer my child."

My daughter, who had only half been paying attention to the television up to that point, was shocked and said "How could her mommy say that to her? You'd never say that to me, would you mom?"

"Of course not, not ever. You'll always be my daughter." I responded. She was especially clingy for a few days after that, and it really stayed with her.

Next, I told her that there is no reason for her to be ashamed of me. That even though I was disfellowshipped, I didn't go back because that was my choice. That I realized that I didn't want to be the kind of person who judges others, that the job of judge belongs only to God.

She just couldn't understand why my getting divorced and marrying someone who treats us so well could make God, and the elders angry. Of course I couldn't explain the specific principles of scriptural divorce to a five year old, so I told her that she would understand a lot better when she was older.

She also expressed again how she didn't like the meetings. She had remarked to me in the past that she didn't understand "how God could make someone die who is as sweet as" I am to her. So I know she has heard people say that I'd better get my act together before Armageddon comes.

Wonderful way to raise a child: To believe that their parent is condemned to die at God's hand. Just the thought of that makes me nauseous.

I told her that I know she doesn't like meetings, and when she gets older she won't have to go with her Dad anymore. She spoke again with determination on her face:

"I go with him, Mom, but I just don't say a word. If I told him that I don't want to go, he'll get mad. So I just sit and don't say anything. Cause when I tried to tell him that before, he said I don't have any choice."

Sad that she already knows, at five, that her father won't accept her feelings. Sad that she wants to hide them from him like that.

We talked for a little while longer, exchanged some extra hugs and kisses, and finally she began to yawn, her eyelids too heavy to keep open. She was satisfied with the answers to her questions for now, well, at least for the most part.

When I tucked her in and went to close her door, I heard her voice again.

"Mom?"

"Yes?"

"Just one more question?"

"What is it?"

"How did you get to be alive? I mean, how did you get to be a baby in your mom's tummy?"

My jaw dropped. This was indeed a night of surprises. I smiled.

"That is a question for another night, honey. Goodnight!"

She's just growing up too fast. But at least I can take comfort in her asking such normal questions like that, instead of the ones unique to the disfellowshipped parent situation.

The next morning she asked me what she should do "If my daddy finds out you're a shut out."

"He already knows, sweetheart. This happened a long time ago. That's not something for you to worry about."

She nodded, and hugged me around the waist, and repeated the most beautiful words in the world:

"I love you, Mom."

-------------------------------

*Names have been changed.

Update on the situation: now almost four years later, the shunning continues, and daughter has formed her own opinions of the family who do so and also of meetings, which she still goes to occaisionally with her father. She says she still isn't sure if "this God person even exists." I tell her not to worry, that that is an adult question, and she has the rest of her life to sort out what she believes. No matter what, her mom is going to love her.

Fleur

36

how does everyone else cope with being shunned by family?

by nb-dfed in

i am a newbie to the site.

i was born an raised a jw.

shortly after marriage, my husband and i decided we no longer wanted to be part of the organization.

Fleur

oy, does this thread stir memories in me.

i've been out for six years. i went through awhile where i didn't care if my family shunned me, i was so convinced that i was doing what was right for myself and my child (divorcing a man who treated me horribly, and then remarrying a man who treated me, and still does, like gold.) that it didn't matter.

later on, as time went on and family events like weddings and funerals came up, it was harder. it was the worst about 18 months after my df'ing, i considered momentarily going back just so i could see my family, but i found the exjw community online, wrote a hell of a lot out, and realized that i will never, could never, be a jw again. most of my family would rather that i had killed myself and been in line for a resurrection than said "enough" to the abusive marriage and walked out. knowing that really helps shine a cold, bright light on them and makes them a lot less attractive to be around, thus reducing the pain of their shunning me.

the only members of my family who will see me are my parents, a brother who isn't baptized (we're not close though) and i get calls now and then from one older sister who has drifted. one older sister has become even more militant as a jw since i left, pioneer, elderette, married to elder. she won't see me at all, not even to see my child, which has been VERY hard on my child. but she is, honestly, better off without her aunt's influence in her life. my sister would be unhealthy even if she wasn't a jw. none of my extended family, including cousins i literally grew up with like siblings, will talk to me. that's been the hardest part.

so there have been times when it's been absolute torture, times it's been a damned inconvenience, and other times when it just doesn't matter. those days are more and more frequent now. i've realized that even if they would talk to me, we'd have nothing to say, because i have nothing in common with them, seriously. even though my relatives are jw's, their lives are all about money, partying on cruises and such, materialism, and the borg. nothing that i have any interest in at ALL.

outoftheborg's post was GREAT. the realization that i came to was that i didn't cut my family off, i have told them all at any opportunity (such as running into them at hospitals visiting my dad when he almost died a couple years back) that i love them, that my door is open to them at any time. they have walked away from me, and that is something i have absolutely no control over.

so i don't torture myself. i have wonderful family on my husband's side (never been jw's, aren't particularly religious, his extended family has several religions in it). i'm raising my daughter to believe that the price of being in relationships with some family members is just too high. you can't sacrifice who you are to gain their 'love'. it's not real love anyway, it's just their twisted version that is really control in disguise.

you will find people to surround yourself with who love you for who you are. and you will like yourself more, believe me.

hope this makes sense. i'm glad you found your way here, believe me you're not alone. regardless of where you are on the rollercoaster, there is someone here who is riding right next to you.

hugs

fleur

13

Another peek at my EMAIL: more shunning "tearing families apart"

by Quotes in

i feel like i have come full circle on this issue.

now, i am the one giving the advice instead of requesting it!

here is a letter i received as the proprietor of http://quotes.watchtower.ca.

Fleur

hmm, perhaps english is not this person's first language hence the 'jehovah's?' i'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are sincere.

sounds to me like they were wanting to get official advice from the society...lucky that they got you instead!!! :)

it's so hard to get mail like that. when i had my old website, it was visited in 2 years by more than 13,000 people and i would have to say that literally 80 percent of them wrote to me with their stories. it was more than i could take after awhile, just too heartbreaking. i couldn't feel comfortable giving advice, some of the situations they asked about were so over my head and needed professional advice. i'd recommend that and in addition i would send them here or to freeminds, tell them to read and then make up their own minds and listen to their hearts.

it was kind of you to reply to him, i hope it helps him. sounds like another family nightmare courtesy of the Borg :(

fleur

23

When You Were A Witness---Were You Ever On A Spiritual "High"?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i knew soooo many jws that would get pumped up because of an assembly or elder's or circuit overseer's talk.

after hearing the reasons to pioneer, for example, some would wait in a line to get their applications from the service overseer.

some would go to their first district convention, see the "love" and want to get baptized.......were you one of those persons that ever found yourself "on a spiritual high"??

Fleur

ROFL minimus!

are you serious? i never felt it...just felt massively depressed...alllll the time. the closest thing to a 'religious experience' i ever had was hearing something like 45000 people sing song 113 once about dedication at a district convention. it was moving, all the voices, but it bothered me somehow. now i know why, it was the sound of the Collective.

fleur