Hi RF: I understand that according to them, they had not yet been chosen by Christ and were therefore not yet spiritually clean.
Just to clarify though: my post was not to hold them accountable for anything they said prior to 1919, or even anything they said in the few decades following then. My point is that prior to 1943, they were clearly teaching (according to their own publications) that Christ's arrival in kingly power occured in 1874. Therefore until 1943 they were proclaiming that (as the March 3-03 Isaiah study put it) "Jehovah had become king" (via Christ's return) in 1874. However, the Isaiah book study this week clearly states that SINCE 1919 they have been proclaiming that Christ arrived in kingly power in 1914 - when in fact they have only been preaching this since 1943!
So to sum up: I'm taking them to task for the lie(?) they printed in the Isaiah book being studied this week, not for what they were teaching 84 years ago.
I hope this makes sense...all of these date are making my head spin!
Cheers Artful
artful
JoinedPosts by artful
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Mar 3/03 Book Study - Intellectual dishonesty, or outright lie?
by artful inhowever, while reading through the wts book study information for the week of march 3/2003, i came across a historical claim regarding the wts and its announcing of 1914 as the year of christs' presence in kingly power.
answer (according to the information given in paragraph 14): jehovah has become king since christ's kingly presence began in 1914. the cry that god (via christ) had become king in 1914 has been announced to mankind by the watch tower society since 1919.
*** the watchtower, march 1, 1923, p. 67 ***.
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artful
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Mar 3/03 Book Study - Intellectual dishonesty, or outright lie?
by artful inhowever, while reading through the wts book study information for the week of march 3/2003, i came across a historical claim regarding the wts and its announcing of 1914 as the year of christs' presence in kingly power.
answer (according to the information given in paragraph 14): jehovah has become king since christ's kingly presence began in 1914. the cry that god (via christ) had become king in 1914 has been announced to mankind by the watch tower society since 1919.
*** the watchtower, march 1, 1923, p. 67 ***.
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artful
Gary: Thanks for your comments. Regarding numerology, off topic, but there have been quite a few articles in the paper lately regarding Sir Issac Newton's writings about the Bible. His ideas were very similar to much of the earlier WTS stuff, and no doubt due to his scientific nature, they are primarily focused on numerology - including his establishment of the date of the end, 2060.
RF: Yes, it is very tricky to catch the WTS in an outright lie! They are certainly masters of double-talk! Although in my mind, what they have printed here is blatantly false and they know it!
Ozzie: Thanks for the comment. I just wanted to mention that when I came onto this forum 1 year ago (with great trepidation), you were one of the first people to give me words of welcome and encouragement. Thank you for that ;-)
Jourles: Thank you for posting the extra quotes. You're right, I'm sure there are tons of them. What gets me is that in spite of the abundance of information about 1874 (as recent as 1973) the WTS can still claim that since 1919 they have been proclaiming Christs' kingly presence as having been established in 1914.
Cheers Artful -
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How it should have read...
by Jourles ina fool will believe anything.proverbs 14:15, todays english version.
there is a differencea big differencebetween education and propaganda.
education shows you how to think.
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artful
Great Job Jourles!
greven mentions that they have ripped off this article from these two sites. It could be. However, I was just reading "In Search of Christian Freedom" last night (page 394) and I came across these exact same words in a quote from an August 22, 1978 Awake. In fact the entire first two paragraphs of the article you quoted (from July 2000) are almost a straight reprint of the '78 Awake. So, in fact they have ripped it off from someone...themselves! I guess good writers are hard to come by at the WTS these days!
Cheers Artful -
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Mar 3/03 Book Study - Intellectual dishonesty, or outright lie?
by artful inhowever, while reading through the wts book study information for the week of march 3/2003, i came across a historical claim regarding the wts and its announcing of 1914 as the year of christs' presence in kingly power.
answer (according to the information given in paragraph 14): jehovah has become king since christ's kingly presence began in 1914. the cry that god (via christ) had become king in 1914 has been announced to mankind by the watch tower society since 1919.
*** the watchtower, march 1, 1923, p. 67 ***.
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artful
In order to build faith in their prophetic prowess, the WTS will tell its modern day readers that they have always pointed toward the year 1914 as a marked year. Of course they will admit that some of the things they thought would come to pass in 1914 did not, but by and large they had the date right. While this has certainly been categorized as 'intellectual dishonesty', I don't believe it amounts to an all out lie.
However, while reading through the WTS Book Study information for the week of March 3/2003, I came across a historical claim regarding the WTS and its announcing of 1914 as the year of Christs' presence in kingly power. I believe that this 'current truth' from the WTS amounts to more than just intellectual dishonesty.
Intellectual dishonesty, or outright lie? - You decide.
Cheers Artful
(thanks to the Quotes Web site for some of the older WT quotes)WTS Book Study article for the week of March 3/2003
Isaiah's Prophecy - Light For Mankind vol 2 page 187 paragraph 1414 Since when in modern times has the cry "Your God has become king!" been heard? Since 1919. In that year at a convention in Cedar Point, Ohio, J.F. Rutherford, then president of the Watch Tower Society, stirred his listeners with a talk entitled "Address to Co-laborers." The talk, based on Isaiah 52:7 and Revelation 15:2, encouraged all present to take up the preaching work. Thus, 'comely feet' began to appear on "the mountains. First anointed Christians and later their companions of the "other sheep" zealously went forth to preach the good news that Jehovah had become King. (John 10:16) How had Jehovah become King? He expressed his kingship anew in 1914 when he installed his Son, Jesus Christ, as King in the newly established heavenly Kingdom. And Jehovah made yet another expression of his kingship in 1919 when he liberated "the Israel of God" from Babylon the Great.
WTS study question for paragraph 14:
How has Jehovah become King in modern times, and since when has this been announced to mankind?Answer (according to the information given in paragraph 14): Jehovah has become King since Christ's kingly presence began in 1914. The cry that God (via Christ) had become king in 1914 has been announced to mankind by the Watch Tower Society since 1919.
COMMENT: The WTS would have the reader believe that since 1919 they have been proclaiming that Christ's kingly presence began in 1914. However, in 1919 (or shortly thereafter) were they really announcing that Christ's kingly presence began in 1914? A quick examination of the WTS publications of that time period will give us the answer.
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For instance what did Rutherford actually say at another talk given on Friday, September 8th, 1922, at Cedar Point, Ohio? w. 1922, pp. 335-337 (exerpt from Rutherford's 1922 Cedar Point talk printed in 1922 WT) …Do you believe it? Do you believe that the King of glory is present, and has been since 1874? Do you believe that during that time he has conducted his harvest work? Do you believe that he has had during that time a faithful and wise servant through whom he directed his work and the feeding of the household of faith? … *** The Battle of Armageddon, (SS-4), 1912 ed., p. 621 ***
Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874, A. D. according to the testimony of the prophets, to those who have ears to hear it...** The Watchtower, September 15, 1922, p. 278 ***
No one can properly understand the work of God at this present time who does not realize that since 1874, the time of the Lord’s return in power, there has been a complete change in God’s operations.*** The Watchtower, March 1, 1923, p. 67 ***
The Scriptures show that his second presence was due in 1874…This proof shows that the Lord has been present since 1874…*** The Watchtower, January 1, 1924, p. 5 ***
Surely there is not the slightest room for doubt in the mind of a truly consecrated child of God that the Lord Jesus is present and has been since 1874...*** Prophecy, 1929, p. 65, 66 ***
The Scriptural proof is that the second presence of the Lord Jesus Christ began in 1874 AD. This proof is specifically set out in the booklet entitled Our Lord's Return.___________________
When was the teaching that the year 1874 marked the return of the appointed king Christ Jesus discarded?___________________*** God's Kingdom Of A Thousand Years Has Approached. 1973. pp. 206, 209 ***
It is true that the editor and publisher of Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Second Presence calculated that the "presence" or parousia of the heavenly bridegroom began in the year 1874 C.E. ...In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book "The Truth Shall Make You Free." In its chapter 11, entitled "The Count of Time" it did away with the insertion of 100 years into the period of the Judges and went according to the oldest and most authentic reading of Acts 13:20, and accepted the spelled-out numbers of the Hebrew Scriptures. This moved forward the end of six thousand years of man's existence into the decade of the 1970's. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. -
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Book for Study = Book of lies
by MacHislopp inii - published by the wtbs inc. in the year 2001)
according to the book jehovahs witnesses in the divine purpose,
according to the book jehovahs witnesses in the divine purpose,
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artful
Good points Mac! Thanks for the great research. I will add this to my files!
As I mentioned earlier, I also have a WTS lie that can be found in a current Isaiah book study. It will be slightly different to what you just posted though. I will be posting something tomorrow in the Study Articles section.
Just a thought, but you may want to repost this great info in the Study Articles section as well since it will tend to get lost in the Friends area due to the large number of threads here.
Cheers Artful -
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WT Contradiction - Are the other sheep sons of God?
by artful inmany are familiar with the countless flip flops and contradictions that can be found in the wt publications of the past (for numerous examples of this see http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com).
however, in reading through the jan 15 and feb 15 wt study articles i believe i have found a "modern day" example of a wts contradictory statement.
it pertains to the status of the "other sheep" as sons of god.. __________.
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artful
Hi jgnat:
According to verse 34, and according to the WTS the 'other sheep' are the ones who receive an inheritance for doing good to the 'brothers' (anointed). As far as I can tell, the WTS doesn't indicate that the sheep ARE the anointed, but rather they are the 'other sheep' who do good to the brothers - those who have already been chosen by Christ. However, they of course refer to the inheritance of 'other sheep' as being 'earthly' and the anointed as being 'heavenly'. As you pointed out from the scripture, Jesus' parable gives no indication of two different destinations or inheritances. So you are right to say that according to the WTS teaching, it could be said that there is another division between the anointed and the other sheep once the goats are dealt with.xjw_b12: I'm sure you are right, most would not pick up on this conflict. From my own experience, I know that when I stumbled across such gems in the past, my Bible-trained (read: WT-trained) conscious would quickly steer me away from such critical thoughts! LOL regarding the writer(s). However, unless they monitor this board, I would think that they are likely not even aware of any inconsistency!
Thanks for all of your comments!
Cheers Artful -
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Are the "Other Sheep" heirs to the Kingdom?
by artful inthe watchtower of february 15, 2003 page 19, paragraph 6 under the heading "attending as respectful observers" states:.
"should those now doing good to the remnant of the 144,000 brothers of christ partake of the lord's evening meal?
according to the wts, the "other sheep" are not joint heirs.
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artful
Greetings to you as well MacHislopp:
I find that the more I read the WTS publications the more amazed I am at these types of inconsistencies! I just found another example of what would appear to be an outright lie regarding their 1914 prophecy in the Isaiah book. I'll post a detail of this as soon as I have a chance.
Cheers
Artful -
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Verses that bothered you as a JW
by JH inwe find god's name "jehovah" so many times in the old testament, but not at all in the new testament.
jesus is called a "mighty god" in the bible.
jesus is also called "father".
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artful
In keeping with the Memorial 'season'...and being of the 'other sheep' here's one that I could never understand.
John 6:53 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."
Does anyone know if the WTS has ever explained how this scripture applies to the other sheep?
Cheers Artful -
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Vaccinations
by onacruse inthe other day i had a discussion with someone about the wts and vaccinations.
i have a strong memory that at one time vaccinations were prohibited by the wts, but when i searched the cd the earliest ref i found made it a matter of conscience:.
*** w52 12/15 764 questions from readers ***.
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artful
Here are a few from the Quotes website:
Cheers
Artful___________
*** The Golden Age, Jan 16, 1924 *** [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM] It has never been proven that a single disease is due to germs.
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*** The Golden Age, May 1, 1929, p. 502 *** [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM] Thinking people would rather have smallpox than vaccination, because the latter sows the seed of syphilis, cancers, escema, erysipelas, scrofula, consumption, even leprosy and many other loathsome affections. Hence the practice of vaccination is a crime, an outrage and a delusion.
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*** The Golden Age, Feb 4 1931 pp. 293, 294, 297 The Sacredness of Human Blood (Reasons why vaccination is unscriptural) *** [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM] ...the vaccination law reduces the father and mother to mere slavery, almost as bad as the colored people were in, when their children were put up on the block and sold. In many slave-sale cases the mother and father were even forbidden to shed tears. Vaccination is a direct violation of the everlasting covenant that God made with Noah after the flood. [...] Vaccination has never saved a human life. It does not prevent smallpox.
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*** Consolation, March 22, 1939, p. 21 *** [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM] ...the irrefutably logical fact that serums and vaccines are products of contamination...rise in cancer is attributed to the use of serums...for the best part they are but handicaps to inherent healing forces of the human body...these are by-products of pus matter...in reality and action it is worse than the proverbial "seven plagues"...One may go through life without having serious manifestations of what has been injected into his blood-stream, thus thinking he was "immunized", but, suddenly, it may begin its satanic work on his child, or even "unto third and fourth generation". -
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A Challenge for the upcoming Memorial
by joe_from_kokomo inhelp prove that the wts prophecies are balderdash, hogwash and poppycock... become a partarker in your own congregation.
you deserve the notoriety.
have a sip, take a bite and become a partaker.
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artful
An interesting plan, however, depending on your 'status' at the local KH, your partaking may or may not be 'counted' as legitimate. For instance, if you are disfellowshipped, disassociated, on reproof, apostate, inactive, irregular, marked, unbalanced, etc, etc. then your partaking will almost certainly not be added to the every growing 'anointed' ranks!
Artful