seattleniceguy

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Posts by seattleniceguy

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  13

  No, It's not BIG news

  by ApagaLaLuz in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i'm sorry, i do not see this as being big news.

  the ties to the un, yes that was huge for me.

  the child abuse, yes, even bigger.

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  seattleniceguy

  AgapaLaLuz,
  This article does not attempt to look at the Watchtower's interpretation of scripture. It is a 38-page review of the Blood brochure, which will document how the Society misrepresented secular facts. If large-scale misrepresentation is present, this could open the way for legal action. At the very least, it should give unbelieving parents another tool when involved in court battles over blood for a minor.
  It's not particularly surprising that the Society has misrepresented secular sources. They have brazenly done that in their "science" books for years. In this case, however, the misrepresentation was on a topic that affects the actual health and well-being of citizens, and their ability to make informed decisions. So the government could have an interest in penalizing the Society.
  It will be interesting to see the full article. I believe that should be available on the university web site (http://www3.baylor.edu/Church_State/jcs_recent_issues.htm) tomorrow.
  SNG
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  1093

  THE NEWS IS BIGGER THAN DATELINE, BBC, CBC, ETC.

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  if i told you that something bigger is on the horizon than dateline, bbc, cbc, sunday (australia), and all other tv programs which exposed the sexual child abuse cover-up by watchtower in 2002-2003, would you believe me?

  have i ever misled you?

  i'll answer that--no!

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  seattleniceguy

  Refresh the thread a few times and watch what happens.
  It does not increment when the same person views the thread multiple times. However, I don't know any details about the logic implementation, and I've seen evidence that it sometimes gets fooled. So there is a possibility that it could be incorrect. But I think it's probably in the correct ballpark.
  SNG
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  14

  Worksheet for JWs with doubts

  by seattleniceguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  being a witness involves accepting what you might call a "pyramid of belief.

  " witness doctrines are based on their interpretation of the bible, which is in turn based on the belief that the bible represents the word of god, which is in turn based on the belief that there is a god that communicates with humans, which is in turn based on the belief that the universe was intentionally constructed by an intelligent being.

  the jw belief system is thus the very top block on the pyramid of beliefs.. witnesses are not in the habit of considering their beliefs in this way, so it can be eye-opening to take a look at what you honestly believe at each level of the pyramid.

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  seattleniceguy

  btt for the day crew
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  26

  Another experience story about leaving the society

  by enderby in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i was raised a dub, though not born one.

  my mother had told the woman her story about studying in the 70's and that she believed the dubs were on to something but just didn't really care.

  what i need are some dub friends.

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  seattleniceguy

  Wow - welcome to the board, enderby!
  SNG
• 
  307

  SERVICE REPORT 2005 : WATCHTOWER FEB 1ST 2006

  by BluesBrother in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have had a quick look and found no references to this, so - here goes..as in the mag we picked up on sunday.. worldwide % increase over 2004 = 1.3%.

  memorial partakers 8524 (compared to 8570 in 2004).

  most european and nth american lands show pretty static figs - britain 1% increase, canada 0%, germany 0%, france 1%, usa 0%... but spare a thought for the inhabitants of zambia where 1 person in 90 is a reporting witness, must be hell going down to the local market!

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  seattleniceguy

  But spare a thought for the inhabitants of Zambia where 1 person in 90 is a reporting witness, must be hell going down to the local market!

  Literally LOL over that. I used to notice those places too. I think I remember seeing one tiny island somewhere where like 1 in 20 people were Witnesses (probably some huge family did a mass conversion or something) and wondering how they went out in service....I mean, there's only so many times you can keep harping on the same stuff to the same people.
  So are you going to post scans or anything?
  SNG
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  14

  Worksheet for JWs with doubts

  by seattleniceguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  being a witness involves accepting what you might call a "pyramid of belief.

  " witness doctrines are based on their interpretation of the bible, which is in turn based on the belief that the bible represents the word of god, which is in turn based on the belief that there is a god that communicates with humans, which is in turn based on the belief that the universe was intentionally constructed by an intelligent being.

  the jw belief system is thus the very top block on the pyramid of beliefs.. witnesses are not in the habit of considering their beliefs in this way, so it can be eye-opening to take a look at what you honestly believe at each level of the pyramid.

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  seattleniceguy

  I think the strength of this exercise lies in the fact that it does not aim to prove anything. The questions are phrased neutrally and do not lead anywhere except toward more and more JW-specific beliefs.
  There is something important about doing this on paper. The process of stepping back and seeing the ink on the page gives concreteness to what is otherwise fuzzy and undefined. I recall feeling slightly surprised when I looked at my own results.
  SNG
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  14

  Worksheet for JWs with doubts

  by seattleniceguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  being a witness involves accepting what you might call a "pyramid of belief.

  " witness doctrines are based on their interpretation of the bible, which is in turn based on the belief that the bible represents the word of god, which is in turn based on the belief that there is a god that communicates with humans, which is in turn based on the belief that the universe was intentionally constructed by an intelligent being.

  the jw belief system is thus the very top block on the pyramid of beliefs.. witnesses are not in the habit of considering their beliefs in this way, so it can be eye-opening to take a look at what you honestly believe at each level of the pyramid.

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  seattleniceguy

  jgnat,
  By all means, go ahead!
  SNG
• 
  1093

  THE NEWS IS BIGGER THAN DATELINE, BBC, CBC, ETC.

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  if i told you that something bigger is on the horizon than dateline, bbc, cbc, sunday (australia), and all other tv programs which exposed the sexual child abuse cover-up by watchtower in 2002-2003, would you believe me?

  have i ever misled you?

  i'll answer that--no!

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  seattleniceguy

  Hello Mr. Anderson, and welcome to the board. You seem like a concerned and reasonable person. I appreciated your post.
  I don't think you need to worry too much about people's faith in God. No matter what the news is, people who are mentally unprepared to stop belief in the organization will not do so. People who are prepared to accept such news will do so. Humans have a built-in ability to reject information that they can't handle. Usually, I see this as a bad thing, because it means that we at times refuse to see reality. But in this case, I think it will work as a natural filter to sieve out those who can safely escape. Those who remeain in may eventually soften their hardline positions.
  Imagine being a first century Jew living under the Pharisaical system as the New Testament describes. Surely you would not worry that such a system should not be overturned for fear that people might lose their faith in God. The system itself (at least as described in the NT) worked to the detriment of its adherents, and as such, it deserved to be overturned or reformed. If their religious system were to be overturned, surely some would reassess belief in God, and such a general reappraisal of one's belief system is always a good thing in my opinion, but probably most would keep essentially the same beliefs but drop the unreasonable ones.
  Hypothetically speaking, let's presume there is a loving God watching all of this, and that the Watchtower actually ceases to exist over this issue. It's hard to imagine that God would be upset. If people reassessed their beliefs and some decided that they no longer believed in God, a loving and all-knowing God would certainly understand the reason and presumably help lead them toward a better understanding.
  I do agree that if there is mass disillusionment, it will be a very difficult and painful time for many to get through. Coming to grips with an unexpected reality always hurts dearly. But in doing so we come to a better, more enlightened place. My hope is that this forum will provide any disillusioned ones a place to find understanding and began the healing process. And think of it this way - in the case of mass disillusionment, at least you have all your former comrades to talk to and work through the issues.
  False paradigms must always be overturned. It is a matter of the march of knowledge. Necessarily, there will be pain for the believers. But in the grand scheme of things, it is all for the good.
  Just my two cents.
  SNG
• 
  14

  Worksheet for JWs with doubts

  by seattleniceguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  being a witness involves accepting what you might call a "pyramid of belief.

  " witness doctrines are based on their interpretation of the bible, which is in turn based on the belief that the bible represents the word of god, which is in turn based on the belief that there is a god that communicates with humans, which is in turn based on the belief that the universe was intentionally constructed by an intelligent being.

  the jw belief system is thus the very top block on the pyramid of beliefs.. witnesses are not in the habit of considering their beliefs in this way, so it can be eye-opening to take a look at what you honestly believe at each level of the pyramid.

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  seattleniceguy

  jwfacts,
  When I was a Witness having a crisis of faith (incidentally, not the one that got me out, but one that was eventually leading to that), I did this exercise as a way to sort out where I stood, kind of like drawing up a list of pros and cons for a decision you need to make.
  Like you, I had much more certainty at the top of the list than I did at the bottom. Looking back, I find it interesting, however, that I could not bring myself to mark anything as "absolutely certain." Even the existence of God, which I believed most strongly of all the items, got only 90% credibility, because I felt like it was unreasonable not to admit to other possibilities.
  SNG
• 
  14

  Worksheet for JWs with doubts

  by seattleniceguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  being a witness involves accepting what you might call a "pyramid of belief.

  " witness doctrines are based on their interpretation of the bible, which is in turn based on the belief that the bible represents the word of god, which is in turn based on the belief that there is a god that communicates with humans, which is in turn based on the belief that the universe was intentionally constructed by an intelligent being.

  the jw belief system is thus the very top block on the pyramid of beliefs.. witnesses are not in the habit of considering their beliefs in this way, so it can be eye-opening to take a look at what you honestly believe at each level of the pyramid.

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• 

  seattleniceguy

  Being a Witness involves accepting what you might call a "pyramid of belief." Witness doctrines are based on their interpretation of the Bible, which is in turn based on the belief that the Bible represents the word of God, which is in turn based on the belief that there is a God that communicates with humans, which is in turn based on the belief that the universe was intentionally constructed by an intelligent being. The JW belief system is thus the very top block on the pyramid of beliefs.

  Witnesses are not in the habit of considering their beliefs in this way, so it can be eye-opening to take a look at what you honestly believe at each level of the pyramid. I've created a short worksheet to help in this. I strongly recommend printing it out or writing it down, rather than doing it on the computer. This is one of those cases where having it on paper in front of you really helps.

  HOW TO USE
  It's very simple. For each belief, there is a continuum that stretches from absolute certainty to absolute disbelief. There are no marks in between - this is entirely up to you. For each proposition, make a mark on the continuum that describes your personal level of certainty about that particular idea. For example:

  There is a tooth fairy:
  Absolute disbelief Absolute certainty
  |X---------------------------------------------------------------------------|

  It is very important to be honest. Don't answer the way you think you ought to answer, as if someone were looking over your shoulder. Just mark down what you truly feel. That's the only way you will get anything out of the exercise. If you don't like the results, you can think about that later, but at least you will have an accurate picture of your belief system.

  Ready? Here we go:

  1. The universe was deliberately created.
  |----------------------------------------------------------------------------|

  2. The universe was created by a single intelligent entity, God.
  |----------------------------------------------------------------------------|

  3. God has intervened in human affairs.
  |----------------------------------------------------------------------------|

  4. God caused the Bible to be written.
  |----------------------------------------------------------------------------|

  5. The history in the Bible is literally true. That is, humans were created from scratch 6000 years ago, a worldwide flood occurred wiping out all but eight humans about 4300 years ago, etc.
  |----------------------------------------------------------------------------|

  6. The Christian scriptures are literally true. That is, God caused a spirit person to be born in the flesh as Jesus, who performed actual miracles, was killed by the Sanhedrin, etc.
  |----------------------------------------------------------------------------|

  7. The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses constitutes the only channel of enlightenment to humankind.
  |----------------------------------------------------------------------------|

  8. God is about to destroy everyone on earth who he deems unrighteous.
  |----------------------------------------------------------------------------|

  9. There is no reliable path to salvation other than by being a Jehovah's Witness.
  |----------------------------------------------------------------------------|

  So, how'd you do?

  SNG