seattleniceguy

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Posts by seattleniceguy

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  20

  Wow! I am free

  by watch the tower in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ever since i stopped going to the meetings, i feel so free and liberated!

  i've been a witness my whole life up to this point and never could imagine how this could have felt!

  no more guilt trips, verbal spankings and phony superficial relationships.. they try to scare you into thinking that if you dare leave jehovah's organization tm, your life will be a barren wasteland, be overcome by satan, turn into a drug addict and never find joy and meaning in your life again.

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  seattleniceguy

  watch the tower,

  Congratulations, and welcome to the board.

  I don't know if it possible to describe that feeling of liberation to a current JW. The first month that I was out felt like a year. It felt like I was wringing every last drop of life from each second. Just walking down the street, breathing the cool, fresh air, looking around my world with new eyes, was amazing. I could read about things that interested me. I could form opinions honestly. I could deal with my fellow humans as equals. I didn't have to deceive myself into thinking I liked meetings and field service, when, in fact, no one does. It was a beautiful time.

  Of course, the newness wears off at some point, but like Dave, I regularly have flashbacks of what I might be doing this moment if I were still a JW, and I am overcome with joy and gratitude that I made it out.

  Glad you made it! Hope to see you around!

  SNG
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  47

  Im new

  by g_cuddles in

  1. jw
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  .

  is there anyone here who actually support jws or is everyone disassociated?.

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  seattleniceguy

  Hello g_cuddles,

  You asked what made me be "against the truth." To put it simply, I learned that it was not the truth. When I was very young, and a true believer, it was difficult for me to see this, because Witnesses try to control your access to information. For example, you spend a lot of time reading WT publications, but you are heavily discouraged from spending much time reading non-WT publications, especially if they relate to science or religion. If they are critical of the WT, you are forbidden to read them.

  And so if someone faithfully obeys these rules, it is unlikely that they will learn anything that challenges their faith. However, I began to see problems in the Witnesses' own publications. Extremely weak logic, absolutist viewpoints, and even deliberate misquotes to support their views. I gradually began to feel that the WTS was not being very honest. And when I started to do real research - not just JW research, but real research, where you look at many sources - I found that they had undeniably been extremely dishonest, and that they continue to do so.

  For me, my biggest issues were the inspiration of the Bible and evolution. I didn't really care about doctrinal issues, because if the Bible is not what they make it out to be, then it doesn't particularly matter if the memorial should be once a year or once a week. But everyone has different issues that concern them, so I would recommend picking a subject that interests you and starting a thread about it, and doing some real research at the public library.

  Hope that helps!

  SNG
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  67

  anyone ever wonder whether IT could be the TRUTH?

  by Cordelia in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i cant believe im posting this either!.

  but ive got a huge decision to make wont go thru it all again its on my last thread, and i have decided that i am stopping going to the meetings completly (ive been dfed 7 months and because i didnt want to hurt my family even more i continued going to all the meetings and hid my boyfriend, wno was wonderful about it, put a letter of reinstatement in which they refused but relised by the way i paniked when i thought they might reinstate me that it is not what i want!).

  i love my bf and want to be with him without any secrecy but i also want my family to accept him and still speak to me but i know that will not happen, so i have two choices either get reinstated and then leave (and risk losing mybf) or tell them now i dont want it and stop the meetings altogether before i go insane.. thing is to be free of the meetings and be with my bf, i will lose my family they are all so strong in the 'truth' they will not have any contact with me and my husband is divorcing me so ill lose finacially and my house and have to share time with my daughter, not to mention all my old friends who are wanting me back, and if i stop now all those months of trying to be reinstated will be wasted id be set right back,.

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  seattleniceguy

  Hi Cordellia,

  I don't presume to be in your shoes, but one thing you said raised my eyebrow a bit:

  I have treated him so bad and got so upset and wondered why i am giving up my life to be with him!

  I think you need to separate the issue of "is this the Truth" from "do I want to live the rest of my life with my boyfriend?" They are two very different issues, and if you confuse them, there is a chance that you won't think either one through. You should leave the organization because it is not true, regardless of whether you will be with your boyfriend forever. Think about your boyfriend situation on its own merits, not as a question of whether it is worth "leaving the organization."

  I fear that if you leave the organization to be with your boyfriend, you will end up with two struggles that it might take a while to get past: a) You will not have worked out whether the organization was wrong on its own, and b) you will constantly be comparing whether your boyfriend's value is sufficient to have warranted leaving what you still think may be the "Truth."

  Just my two cents. I don't mean to tell you what to do. I'm just telling you how things appear to me.

  SNG
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  67

  anyone ever wonder whether IT could be the TRUTH?

  by Cordelia in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i cant believe im posting this either!.

  but ive got a huge decision to make wont go thru it all again its on my last thread, and i have decided that i am stopping going to the meetings completly (ive been dfed 7 months and because i didnt want to hurt my family even more i continued going to all the meetings and hid my boyfriend, wno was wonderful about it, put a letter of reinstatement in which they refused but relised by the way i paniked when i thought they might reinstate me that it is not what i want!).

  i love my bf and want to be with him without any secrecy but i also want my family to accept him and still speak to me but i know that will not happen, so i have two choices either get reinstated and then leave (and risk losing mybf) or tell them now i dont want it and stop the meetings altogether before i go insane.. thing is to be free of the meetings and be with my bf, i will lose my family they are all so strong in the 'truth' they will not have any contact with me and my husband is divorcing me so ill lose finacially and my house and have to share time with my daughter, not to mention all my old friends who are wanting me back, and if i stop now all those months of trying to be reinstated will be wasted id be set right back,.

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  seattleniceguy

  Hello Cordelia,

  I cannot emphasize this strongly enough: They lie about almost everything.

  They practice deliberate deception when quoting outside sources. They practice deliberate deception when retelling their own history. They engage in basic logical fallacies in issue after issue of the Watchtower and Awake! magazines. They demonstrate that they care more about advancing their own doctrine than the actual facts in their literature. There is precious little of anything approaching truth in the WTS.

  If you're unsure, take the time to research things carefully. If there is one sure thing in this world, it is that the Witnesses are not what they claim.

  If I were you, I would start by reading Ray Franz' Crisis of Conscience. This will give you a very good place to start.

  SNG
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  39

  So NO Russians ever walked on the moon? None?

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey guys,.

  i was reading popular science and i staggered across a line that suggested that russia had never landed men on the moon.

  that struck me as blatantly false, i knew i'd seen footage of cosmonauts on the moon.

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  seattleniceguy

  I found this interesting quote on Wikipedia:

  According to a 1999 Gallup poll, about 6 percent of the population of the U.S. has doubts that the Apollo astronauts walked on the moon.

  "Although, if taken literally, 6 percent translates into millions of individuals," Gallup said of this, "it is not unusual to find about that many people in the typical poll agreeing with almost any question that is asked of them -- so the best interpretation is that this particular conspiracy theory is not widespread."

  Nearly all interested scientists, technicians, and space enthusiasts have rejected the claim, considering it to be baseless.

  One of the real problems with attempting to prove that the moon landings were real is that one wonders exactly what proof would suffice. For example, if we took close-up images of the moon and showed the landing sites and rovers, would this be convincing? Or would a hoax-proponent simply say that these photos were themselves part of the hoax? Thus, part of the problem with conspiracy theories is that they can easily become non-falsifiable stories, which means it doesn't matter what proof is shown, the believer will continue in belief.

  In actual fact, the Japanese SELENE mission (http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/missions/profile.cfm?MCode=SELENE) will map the surface of the moon in high enough resolution that we should be able to see the landing sites and rovers that were left there. Personally, I'm pretty excited to see the images. But I'm confident that the conspiracy will live on. In fact, even when it becomes possible to go to the moon personally and see the original landers and rovers in a moon-based museum, there will probably still be people who say that we didn't land there in 1969.

  As a quick note to the poster who questioned NASA's competence, I just want to note that the rocket technology for getting to the moon was in many ways simpler and better than the space shuttle. The shuttle was designed to be something that it could not reliably be, at least not with current technology. But the Apollo rockets were simple - giant, but simple - rockets with the payload on top. Also, as in all long-distance missions, course corrections were made on the way to the moon using current telemetry data, so it wasn't a matter of getting everything right on the first burn.

  Getting to the moon was a challenge, for sure, but it was certainly within the technical capabilities of a group of intelligent people with government-sized resources.

  Also, I just have to say that NASA has been doing a bang-up job on a lot of missions. Notably, the recent Mars missions have been stunning successes. The Mars Reconnaisance Orbiter, currently on its way to the red planet, will provide surface imagery with resolution better than you see on Google maps right now. There are some seriously talented people at NASA, and even though the failures make the headline news, they have been quietly pressing on with some amazing stuff.

  SNG
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  89

  How the Internet Means 'The End' for Apostates and Opposers of the Society

  by slimboyfat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the received wisdom is that the internet has dramatically damaged the ability of the watchtower society to gain and retain followers.

  there was a very eloquent article to that effect written some time ago by a commentator who attempted to buttress his argument with reference to the postmodern condition and the breakdown of metanarratives in todays secular society, nay, even the come-back for enlightenment notions of truth.

  in the 1970/80s there were major challenges to the watchtowers theology (great crowd in heaven) and chronology (1914) in norway, alberta canada, dublin ireland and in the newyork bethel itself: but the damage caused by those involved in the dissent was limited because knowledge was dispersed merely through personal contact and minimal use of obscure publications that seldom met the eyes of witnesses innocent of the watchtowers doctrinal and chronological vacillations in any case.

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  seattleniceguy

  He or she will, like I did, click, glance and run, heart pounding. They will sneer a bit at the information. Then, later, something will happen to them personally that will cause them to return and read more.

  LOL @ Confession. I loved the sneer.

  But seriously. People go to the internet for information every day. After you've used the internet for a while, you know how to find factual, instantaneous answers to any question, and it becomes a part of how you approach the universe. I just can't see WT growth continuing as before in the face of such a powerful fact-checking mechanism. Before, BS could stand up for a lot of people if it sounded convincing. But now, if it doesn't survive scrutiny, it will be discarded by all but the most naive.

  SNG
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  51

  Do Any Atheists Feel This Way?

  by Big Dog in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the atheists have done a pretty good job on me, i am just about to cast my lot in with them after all the reading and debating on the issue.

  they just seem to have all the answers and appear to hold the intellectual high ground, they do a good job of making one feel like a complete idiot for believing in a god, much less the christian version.

  so now that i am almost free of this delusional, magical thinking, religious burden of foolishly believing in a god and that there is anymore to life than what is right here how do i feel?

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  seattleniceguy

  one Thursday afternoon

  Is there a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy fan in the house? :-)

  SNG
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  51

  Do Any Atheists Feel This Way?

  by Big Dog in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the atheists have done a pretty good job on me, i am just about to cast my lot in with them after all the reading and debating on the issue.

  they just seem to have all the answers and appear to hold the intellectual high ground, they do a good job of making one feel like a complete idiot for believing in a god, much less the christian version.

  so now that i am almost free of this delusional, magical thinking, religious burden of foolishly believing in a god and that there is anymore to life than what is right here how do i feel?

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  seattleniceguy

  Hi Big Dog,

  Accepting your own mortality is difficult. In fact, it is precisely this difficulty that has given rise to life-after-death myths for our entire human history. We simply do not want to accept that we will die.

  (As an aside, I sometimes find it amusing that the JWs, who believe they have such a deep understanding of human life and death, are among the farthest from accepting their own mortality. Whereas most religious people at least accept that they will have to die to get into the next life, Witnesses think they'll never have to die at all!)

  You're right. From a non-theistic worldwiew, an individual life does not inherently have great value in the large scheme of things. But there is a different kind of awe in taking a step back and seeing the world as a great biological machine, populations evolving, the surface of the planet changing, each of us a part of the process.

  It also makes me want to use my time to make a impact for good on the people around me. Not because I think a big guy in the sky is watching and I'll get my reward later, but because I understand the interconnectedness of life and I want to be a force for good in my local environment. It causes me to want to raise children who become good citizens, solid thinkers, loving parents - people who themselves will make contributions to the world.

  Of course, sometimes I wish I didn't have to die. But I firmly believe that accepting reality is better than living in self-deception.

  SNG
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  13

  What to do when life starts over

  by destroyedbyhate in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  have any of you ever thought that you would be with somone forever in a paradise earth?

  then you realize that it was all a bunch of lies.

  you slowly watch the marriage you had dissentgrate before your eyes.. you want desperately to fix it, but you are being pulled in too many directions.

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  seattleniceguy

  Hello there, and welcome to the board!

  Will it all be OK? I don't know. Wise men have said that time will heal all wounds. But I feel like I have been broken, and I'm not sure if I can fix it.

  Leaving this organization is very difficult. It is engineered to be so. But by doing so, you become stronger. These aren't just words. You will become a much, much stronger person than you imagined possible.

  Hang in there. You can make it.

  SNG
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  46

  JW's are they really a cult?

  by Evanescence in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  many people would say they are a cult, what are your reasons for thinking they are a cult?.

  a created a thread a while ago on an idea of what a cult is http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/96309/1.ashx.

  do you think it is the jehovah's witnesses as a whole a cult?

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  seattleniceguy

  They certainly have the "identifying marks"....

  SNG