Posts by seattleniceguy

149

Watchtower Observer site goes down

by Norm in

jw
friends

hey folks,.

an era in the ex-jw history is over.

kent steinhaug's site http://watchtower.observer.org is being shut down.. it was the first of it's kind, and to this day probably still the largest anti wt site on the net.

seattleniceguy

Sweet! Looks like the brotherhood of true apostates pulls through again! How's going to be responsible for this? Can we get a paypal address (hopefully from someone we know and trust well )?

SNG

72

Judge orders removal of "evolution disclaimer" stickers in Georgia, USA

by seattleniceguy in

thank goodness, a judge with some sense!.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2005/01/13/national1134est0530.dtl.

here's a quote:but the judge disagreed: "while evolution is subject to criticism, particularly with respect to the mechanism by which it occurred, the sticker misleads students regarding the significance and value of evolution in the scientific community.

seattleniceguy

Hello confused,

I hear you. You might check out talkorigins.org when you get a chance. It's really expansive, but just start on the FAQs page and go where your interest takes you.

When I was a Witness, I realized that I was required by logic to accept that some evolution does happen. Otherwise, the flood could never have happened, because the variety of creatures alive on earth today vastly outnumbers the variety that could possibly have squeezed onto Noah's cruise ship. But for some reason, I arbitrarily decided that large-scale evolution didn't happen. I didn't have any evidence to suggest any such division. I guess I still wanted to believe the Bible somehow.

But really large-scale evolution is merely small-scale evolution, many times over. In nature, there are really no insurmountable walls between what we see as kinds. Humans are good at creating those in our heads, but life is good at showing us it can do whatever it damn well pleases.

Anyway, just my two cents. Talkorigins has a lot of great info.

Euph:

Hmm....bummer. Have you read the decision yet? Maybe Georgia has a law that says state-sponsored educational institutions can't teach misleading things? :-)

SNG

72

Judge orders removal of "evolution disclaimer" stickers in Georgia, USA

by seattleniceguy in

thank goodness, a judge with some sense!.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2005/01/13/national1134est0530.dtl.

here's a quote:but the judge disagreed: "while evolution is subject to criticism, particularly with respect to the mechanism by which it occurred, the sticker misleads students regarding the significance and value of evolution in the scientific community.

seattleniceguy

GetBusy,

I don't know anything about Ray except what I know from reading his writing, but I don't think he would be deliberately dishonest. I think in this case, he simply doesn't know enough on the topic to realize that the arguments are strawman, and his religious views compel him to want to dismiss evolution.

SNG

16

Brief Introduction

by frozen one in

jw
friends

thought i would join the forum after following the posts for a while.

i used to post on tishie's x-jw site but have not participated there for a while.

anyway, i was born into the religion...cult...borg...whatever.

seattleniceguy

Welcome, frozen!

SNG

149

Watchtower Observer site goes down

by Norm in

jw
friends

hey folks,.

an era in the ex-jw history is over.

kent steinhaug's site http://watchtower.observer.org is being shut down.. it was the first of it's kind, and to this day probably still the largest anti wt site on the net.

seattleniceguy

You've got $50 from Seattle.

I could aid in several other facets of the re-development effort, as well, such as design and development of the new site.

SNG

66

OK, I HAVE to meet with the judicial committee. Advice?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

hey guys,.

" you say, "no you don't, you mind-controlled idiot.

tell 'em to fark off.

seattleniceguy

Hey Dave,

Sorry to hear about your problem. That's really cool of you to want to try to help out the one elder you think has some hope. But I wouldn't put much hope in successfully stalling too long. If they actually saw your decorations, I'm sure they've got their finger on the trigger. Hopefully your sister-in-law will be cool.

and of course their secret elder's book (with matching decoder ring)

That was freakin' hillarious.

In terms of what you might say to help the possibly-cool elder, it's hard to imagine much being helpful on the Christmas topic. I mean, it took me year after leaving to want to celebrate it, and I didn't even have religious leanings! What I'm saying is, it doesn't seem like a topic that's likely to have any resonance to a Witness, unless maybe he was raised outside.

Then again, my standard approach of disproving the Bible doesn't go over real well either, so hey, seriously, what do I know? I'm not good at the tactful anti-witness. :-)

SNG

72

Judge orders removal of "evolution disclaimer" stickers in Georgia, USA

by seattleniceguy in

thank goodness, a judge with some sense!.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2005/01/13/national1134est0530.dtl.

here's a quote:but the judge disagreed: "while evolution is subject to criticism, particularly with respect to the mechanism by which it occurred, the sticker misleads students regarding the significance and value of evolution in the scientific community.

seattleniceguy

Heya, Euph! Interesting point. Just to take this to its logical extremes, let's say that the democratically elected school board decided to put in stickers that say something that is completely false, scientifically speaking. Let's say the sticker says that humans have explored Pluto extensively. Obviously, this is untrue. Does a school board have the right to teach whatever it wants, with brazen disregard for the facts? Would a judge be able to order those stickers removed?

Obviously, a blatant untruth is not present on these stickers. But they are certainly misleading. Can a school board be allowed to mislead its students?

Just some thoughts.

AlanF:

Thanks for that analysis! Have you considered sending it to Franz? I noticed that he invited comments on the page containing his essay.

SNG

72

Judge orders removal of "evolution disclaimer" stickers in Georgia, USA

by seattleniceguy in

thank goodness, a judge with some sense!.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2005/01/13/national1134est0530.dtl.

here's a quote:but the judge disagreed: "while evolution is subject to criticism, particularly with respect to the mechanism by which it occurred, the sticker misleads students regarding the significance and value of evolution in the scientific community.

seattleniceguy

aniron:

Can you demonstrate this "fact" by scientific observation, testing, and examination.

Yes. Evolution is both a theory and a fact. The fact that biological organisms change over time has been both directly and indirectly observed. For more information, see the following links:

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-qa.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html#observe

What is in debate is not that evolution occurs. The question is how does it occur? Under what conditions is it more likely to occur? Why does it sometimes happen faster than other times?

Also, experiments can be devised to test these questions. If you read for a while on the talkorigins site, you'll find a lot of great information on that topic.

SNG

72

Judge orders removal of "evolution disclaimer" stickers in Georgia, USA

by seattleniceguy in

thank goodness, a judge with some sense!.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2005/01/13/national1134est0530.dtl.

here's a quote:but the judge disagreed: "while evolution is subject to criticism, particularly with respect to the mechanism by which it occurred, the sticker misleads students regarding the significance and value of evolution in the scientific community.

seattleniceguy

Thank goodness, a judge with some sense!
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2005/01/13/national1134EST0530.DTL

Here's a quote:

But the judge disagreed: "While evolution is subject to criticism, particularly with respect to the mechanism by which it occurred, the sticker misleads students regarding the significance and value of evolution in the scientific community." [emphasis mine]

This underscores the reality that the fact of evolution is not really in question. The theories that people talk about are in regard to the precise mechanisms by which things evolve.

Here's the entire article:

54

We're Studying The Daniel Book........ Again!!! AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

by Doubtfully Yours in

they'll be lucky to see me at all at the farguing book study meeting!!!

damn it, if they don't have anything new to study, why not move some of the other meetings' material to this hour thus making shorter those other meetings???!!!

of course not, for this move would be too simple yet smart and full of common sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

seattleniceguy

Wow. The one thing I really took away from the study of this book was a sense of hopelessness. Every new chapter seemed to contain even less content than the one before. Every week, it seemed clearer that everyone was just repeating the comments from the previous week. Augh. I really feel sorry for my dubby friends who will be studying this again.

SNG