I agree with Shamas and JLL. The purpose of this site should be to bring out facts about the hypocrisy and deceitfulness of the WTS throughout its' existence. The problem is some get carried away and state non-facts and make uncalled for derogatory comments that offend sincere truth seekers.
FM
i remember a few years ago, i changed congregation, so the elders told me that they had to send my folder to the other congregation.
when i was baptized, i don't remeber them telling me they kept information on me, and that they would pass it around to other congregations if ever i moved.. i wonder what kind of information is kept in these folders.
probably everyone in the congregation has his hours listed and the privileges they had written in it, but maybe there is alot more written that we don't even know about.
I don't what my "letter of introduction" said about me when I changed congregations about four years ago but every privilege I had except for TMS, commenting and field service ceased. It was strange since I was being used in the congregation I left. I chalked it up to vengeance on the part of a few particular elders I had crossed. I asked to see the letter but my request was refused. I don't think my comments about being stabbed in the back went over very well.
FM
wts has quite a few traits which are typical of totalitarian systems.
many of them have been demonstrated on this board (labeling, shunning, monopoly on truth, propaganda, indoctrination, polarization of reality etc.)..
there is one more aspect of the wts religion which can also be observed in most totalitarian systems and that is the system of granting privileges.
JustTickledPink, how well you stated the truth about why WT privileges mean so much to some. Once when discussing (gossiping) the attitudes of those in our congregation a friend commented, "for some the truth is all they've got. He was right they had nothing else.
FM
they are actually the happiest group of people on earth.
can you go just to god for forgiveness?.
?ezekiel 9:4-6.. the paragraph concludes:.
“But... if only the anointed have Jesus as a mediator, then how is it that the "sheep" can also get forgiveness on the basis of that sacrifice?
This looks, to me, like they don't even follow their own theology. Or am I overlooking something?"
Bebu, the way this is explained is that Jesus died for all mankind not just those who will be in heaven with him. The mediation was not for mankind’s sins but for a new covenant with those who will be part of the heavenly kingdom of Kings and Priests with Jesus Christ. I'm not arguing one way or another but this is how this is reconciled.
FM
since you hijacked jez's thread, i borrowed her words for the title of your very own "welcome back brownboy" thread.. this can be fun.
everybody can ask you questions about bible prophecy and such, seeing as you and him are so close and all.
oh, waitsatan misled you...eh?
I think that Brown Boy has problems. He is obviously sincere but extremely confused. Some of what he has posted has good logic and is actually Scripturally sound but then he says things that are extremely wacko. I wonder how BB is viewed in the congregation he attends (if he attends). I would expect that he receives a lot sideways glances there just like he does on this forum.
FM
i was just having lunch in a wendy's near my house an hour ago.
an elder and his wife entered and got in line to order without seeing me seated in the eating area.
after a minute the wife turned and saw me.
AK – Jeff
Your sentiments pretty well sum up my observations. I have never been df’d or da but have and do experience shunning because of the “unfounded” rumors that I’m a borderline apostate. I remember several years ago a new elder moving into our congregation and him shunning me at a local Kmart. He didn’t know me from Adam’s house cat, so explain that. Anyway, being the confrontational person I am I asked him at the next meeting why he acted in the way he did. His comment was to the effect “I didn’t know if you were a disfellowshipped person or not". Didn’t make sense to me to assume a person was disfellowshipped until knowing otherwise.
I think that often individuals in the congregations take it upon themselves to “mark” another and thus justify their shunning of them. I think that is about as low down petty as can be.
FM
i was at university the other night in the computer lab, cruising this site, well a fellow classmate who has been in my class since sept and we have become friends, walks past, looks at the site i am on and says, "i noticed you are on a jw site, did you know i am a jw, are you one?".
i was shocked.
i turned to him and let loose,.
LittleToe:
My definitions are as follows:
· Immortality – Having life within ones self without need for outside sustenance such as food or water. This condition would also mean that no outside force, entity (other than almighty God) could end your conscience existence. I also think that since God grants this condition to certain ones it means he knows without a doubt that he would never have need of ending that individual’s existence.
· Eternal life/Everlasting Life – To me these are one and the same. One will never die as long as they meet God’s requirements. Life is eternal or everlasting under the conditions God has set. Adam and Ever had this type of life but forfeited it by willful disobedience of God. Satan and the fallen angels have also forfeited the right to this type of life and will be destroyed permanently in the lake of fire (second death). As you mentioned, the lake of fire definition is one supported by the WT (as well as others). I guess you could say that since the book of Revelation is one of symbolisms there is wiggle room here as well. I could be wrong but the WT definition for this particular understanding is one with which agree.
· The Hebrew word for soul is nephesh and literally means breather. In the Old Testament it is used in conjunction with both man and other living creatures. Can a soul die? Ezekiel 18:4 says it can.
· Now here’s a question for you. If one’s soul is immortal then how can Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 be true? These two scriptures say, “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten” and "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.”
I don’t believe that any organization or individual can lay claim to a perfect understanding or interpretation of God’s word. Fortunately (not a JW word) I think it’s what is in our hearts that God is most concerned with and our acceptance of his means of salvation (Jesus Christ, not a religious organization). If I’m wrong and wind up in heaven instead of on a paradise earth then I’m sure I’ll be happy. Enough said for now.
FM
i was at university the other night in the computer lab, cruising this site, well a fellow classmate who has been in my class since sept and we have become friends, walks past, looks at the site i am on and says, "i noticed you are on a jw site, did you know i am a jw, are you one?".
i was shocked.
i turned to him and let loose,.
Sunspot, please understand, I'm not defending what the WTS is or what it has done. The WT is a deceitful and controlling organization. It was this realization more than anything else that started my questions and research. I certainly don't think they are the one true religion, still, they do have some things right. There was a time when I was misled by the WTS but never again. I've always said there are two sides to every coin and one should not be afraid to examine both sides. I've also said that "truth" is not afraid of examination and instinctively knew that the reason the WT warned against reading so called apostate literature and staying away from web sites like this one is that they had things they were hiding.
LittleToe, yes I believe that those who go to heaven will be immortal spirit creatures. Jesus is now immortal but that was not always the case since the Bible speaks of him as being the first to put on immortality. There is something special about immortality and those who receive it (God's absolute trust in those individuals maybe (?)) Satan, his demons and even the angels do not enjoy immortality. Of course the angels will live eternally as long as they do not follow Satan's example. Adam and Eve were not immortal and had eternal life taken from them for their disobedience to God just as have Satan and the fallen angels.
FM
i was at university the other night in the computer lab, cruising this site, well a fellow classmate who has been in my class since sept and we have become friends, walks past, looks at the site i am on and says, "i noticed you are on a jw site, did you know i am a jw, are you one?".
i was shocked.
i turned to him and let loose,.
Johnny cip, I see how one could believe what you stated about the supposed-annointed thinking they have immortal souls. However the WTS' actual teaching is that at the exact instance of physical death, the annointed ones have since 1914(?) been recreated as spirit creatures. They believe that those who died in Christ prior to his speculated return in 1914 simply existed nowhere except in God's memory. Prior to this they beleive they were entirely physical creatures without a seperate immortal soul. When Jesus returned those who were "sleeping" in death were resurrected (recreated) as spirit creatures.
This viewpoint of a resurrection and no immortal soul is what I hold to be correct. As far as it pertains to those that wind up in heaven with Jesus, whether or not the number is 144,000 is to me a mute point and I certainly don't believe the WTS has a lock on heaven.
FM
i was at university the other night in the computer lab, cruising this site, well a fellow classmate who has been in my class since sept and we have become friends, walks past, looks at the site i am on and says, "i noticed you are on a jw site, did you know i am a jw, are you one?".
i was shocked.
i turned to him and let loose,.
Bubbamar. I'm taking some heavy hits so be gentle please. The WTS is not alone in acting and its members acting in unchristian ways. Wouldn't it be fair to say that this can be said about all religions? The record of the churches speaks for itself just as does the record of the WTS. Religion (including the WTS) has always been guilty of saying one thing and doing another. I was not born a JW and I saw abundant hypocrisy in religion, especially the Baptist Church with which I was associated. If I had known (been smart enough to investigate) the real truth about the WTS I would not have become a JW and suppose I would have written religion off completely. As it is, I have attained a faith in Jehovah, Jesus and in God's word the Bible. I have no faith in the WTS or any other of man's religions. My lack of faith in religion however does not excuse me from having faith in God.
