OrphanCrow

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Posts by OrphanCrow

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  13

  Is the Holy Spirit directing this testimony?

  by Mad Sweeney in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  if anybody can advise how to get the vid to show here, i'll edit this post.

  thanks.apologies for the inconsistent sound levels.. https://youtu.be/nok514dqlti.

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  OrphanCrow

  Madsweeney, if you go directly to the youtube site, and then copy and paste the address bar, it should embed.

  ..trying now...

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOK514DQltI

  *yup,...it worked!
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  33

  Dr Applewhite and Conti's case

  by Viva la Vida in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  this is from conti's appeal veredict:.

  monica applewhite, a clinical social worker and an expert on child sexual abuse, testified for defendants that watchtowers policy against disclosing private information .

  very closely mirror[ed] the codes of ethics of the national association of social workers and the american counseling association.

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  OrphanCrow

  marvin: Even then, and to be perfectly honest, I have experience with lawyers and courts in New Orleans and Baton Rouge, Louisiana and what comes from that area is not very helpful to me, particularly in civil matters.

  Sigh. You are right. I keep forgetting about the American way of doing things in a court of law.
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  28

  One of the most important questions.

  by Lemonp in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  it is enthralling having everything being dragged kicking and screaming into the light of day.

  however one of the most important things to ask is this:.

  is the rc evidence admissable in other countries and other courts?.

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  OrphanCrow

  max: I think it would come down to whether a reasonable person would think the material was too detailed for a legitimate church disciplinary purpose and that a paedophile would get off reading it.

  If a paedophile will get off on the material is actually irrelevant in determining the exploitation of the child victim. The material produced is always assumed to be expolitative if it does not fall under point (a) of 228E.

  Reasonable people have already determined that the investigation into child abuse claims is not necessary or helpful. The guidelines for reporting child abuse (iPreventing Child Sexual Abuse Within Youth-serving Organizations: Getting Started on Policies and Procedures) identifies investigation by volunteers in organizations as harmful to the legal process.

  Determining the amount of detail collected in a judical process investigation is not a job for lay persons to be involved in. Any amount of probing for detail is wrong.

  defender:.. So are you saying then that legally, any nonprofessional person without the skills to investigate abuse, who asks a child about what happened during abuse and makes any notes is producing child pornography?

  Yes, I am.

  Notes don't even have to be taken, images don't have to be made. The real, live child is sitting right there. The judicial process itself is a pornographic act all on its own.

  There is no need whatsoever to ask a child what happened during the abuse once the child comes forward. No need at all. Once the claim has been made, any attempt by someone to probe for details, other than those trained and authorized to do so, should be seen as illegal. It may be suitable for a parent to privately ask their own child what happened, but under no circumstances should that child be required to give details to an outside person other than a professional. Requiring a child to give testimony to the JW elders should be a crime all by itself - under pornographic laws that pertain to minors.

  Any attempt to do so should result in charges of producing pornographic material, regardless of what form that child's experience is preserved in - even just sitting and listening to the child's sexual experiences is pornographic when it is done by non-professionals. Hell, the JW judical system itself allows for a live, real life pornographic experience. No images needed, and no notes needed - it is sitting right there in the room and is delivered through live audio - from the mouth of a minor.

  If simply making notes of what has happened in a case of abuse is producing child pornography, how come the JW elders are not right now being charged with producing child pornography?

  Not yet. But it doesn't mean they couldn't be.

  Once it is established how the judicial process works inside the JWs, it becomes a place from which to move forward on matters of the law.

  The wheels of justice grind slowly. But they do grind.

  
  
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  33

  Dr Applewhite and Conti's case

  by Viva la Vida in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  this is from conti's appeal veredict:.

  monica applewhite, a clinical social worker and an expert on child sexual abuse, testified for defendants that watchtowers policy against disclosing private information .

  very closely mirror[ed] the codes of ethics of the national association of social workers and the american counseling association.

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  OrphanCrow

  insofar as I can tell are unevidenced (e.g., that she did something illegal or unethical in Louisiana, USA).

  You are right. We will have to wait for the outcome of that Louisiana case. I was wrong to jump to conclusions - the evidence will determine the outcome. I will be interested in what the judge decides in Louisiana.

  The "whore" label is one that is used by the legal profession even when the testimony has nothing to do with religion.
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  40

  JW EXPERT WITNESS FLOORED BY COMMISSION OF INQUIRY LAWYER

  by steve2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  much has already been written about dr monica applewhite, the expert witness hired by the jw organization.

  her job was to provide "expert" testimony to the australian commission of inquiry into jehovsh's witnesses' policies and practices on child sexual abuse.

  astonishingly, dr applewhite was unprepared for the inquiry lawyers' questions.

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  OrphanCrow

  joe: I think she was certainly knowledgeable in her field.

  If she was knowledge in her field, then she should have been familar with this document:

  Preventing Child Sexual Abuse Within Youth-serving Organizations: Getting Started on Policies and Procedures

  U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES 2007
  

  Component 5: Responding to Inappropriate Behavior, Breaches in Policy, and Allegations and Suspicions of Child Sexual Abuse Goal
  To respond quickly and appropriately to (1) inappropriate or harmful behavior, (2) infractions of child sexual abuse prevention policies, and (3) evidence or allegations of child sexual abuse.
  General Principles The ultimate aim of child sexual abuse prevention efforts within youth-serving organizations is to prevent child sexual abuse from ever occurring; however, an organization needs to have communicated clearly what it and its employees/volunteers should do if policies are violated or if child sexual abuse occurs.
  Define inappropriate and appropriate strategies
  • Clarify that it is not the role of an employee/ volunteer or your organization to evaluate or investigate an allegation or suspicion.
  • Let child protective services, law enforcement, and child advocacy centers investigate allegations or suspicions. • Know that an organization’s investigation can harm the youth or the legal investigative process.

  Her testimony did not indicate that she was familiar with those guidelines. Her position was to try to fit ecclesiastical procedure into a framework that could be accepted as suitable by the Commission. She did not criticize the judical procedure at all - she supported a practice that has been identified by experts as being harmful to victims in and of itself.

  Her expertise is only inside of institutional structures - and that is exactly the problem that the Royal Commission is addressing - how institutions maintain a myopic system that is harmful to the children. She was an "expert" on insular procedures and policies.
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  33

  Dr Applewhite and Conti's case

  by Viva la Vida in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  this is from conti's appeal veredict:.

  monica applewhite, a clinical social worker and an expert on child sexual abuse, testified for defendants that watchtowers policy against disclosing private information .

  very closely mirror[ed] the codes of ethics of the national association of social workers and the american counseling association.

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  OrphanCrow

  About calling an expert witness a "whore" (prostitute):

  Preparing and Presenting Expert Testimony in Child Abuse Litigation: A Guide for Expert Witnesses and Attorneys - Paul Stern

  pg. 114

  A witness who spends a considerable amount of time working as an expert witness is vulnerable to attack as a biased witness. The opposing side will attempt to show the witness's track record as a "for hire" witness for one particular party. Although the term 'witness' might be used in court, "whore" ("prosecutor whore", "plaintiff whore", or "defense whore" - take your pick) is the clear implication. Indeed, there are some witnesses who are appropriately labelled as such (see the examples discussed in chapter 7). The frequency for which a witness testifies for a certain side, and for what financial gain, will be used as a measure of his or her objectivity.

  
  
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  15

  Does the RC have the names of the 1006 abused victims?

  by Dumplin in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i've updated my jw wife on the highlights of the rc proceedings each day as they occur.

  but tonight she said something that made my blood boil (which i am usually in complete control of).

  she said something to the effect that victims need to not dwell on what happened and let it control their lives.

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  OrphanCrow

  Possum: Its seems like the ones who give a submission are followed up. My relative has been contacted by a detective re: investigation of abuser?

  If the Commission has turned the names of the abusers over to the police (like they should have been years ago), the police force in Australia is going to be pretty busy with investigating historic cimes.

  The Royal Commission is concerned with making changes but the police are concerned with solving crime.
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  28

  One of the most important questions.

  by Lemonp in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  it is enthralling having everything being dragged kicking and screaming into the light of day.

  however one of the most important things to ask is this:.

  is the rc evidence admissable in other countries and other courts?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  OrphanCrow

  If a child were to tell YOU what had happened to them during abuse, and you made notes of what they said, in case the story changes at a later date or you forgot what had happened.. As you may need to do if you were to support a police investigation for instance.. Would that be producing child pornography?

  Key Point:

  I would not collect details. I would immediately take the child to a professional.

  If I was a professional, I would follow the required procedures for collecting evidence.

  Key Point:

  The JWs elders are not professionals with the skills to handle evidence collection. Because of that, it cannot be considered evidence collecting.

  Key phrase here: intended to stimulate sexual excitement.

  Key point:

  That intent never has to proven when it involves minors.
• 
  33

  Dr Applewhite and Conti's case

  by Viva la Vida in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  this is from conti's appeal veredict:.

  monica applewhite, a clinical social worker and an expert on child sexual abuse, testified for defendants that watchtowers policy against disclosing private information .

  very closely mirror[ed] the codes of ethics of the national association of social workers and the american counseling association.

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  2. 
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• 

  OrphanCrow

  Ah, here we go.

  A listing of the articlles in the Watchtower and Awake magazines that criticize the Catholic Church and other churches for sex abuse:

  http://www.silentlambs.org/Catholicarticles.htm

  Applewhite must have read those, right??

  How can a Catholic 'expert' appear and give testimony for the WTS when the WTS has castigated the Catholic Church about how bad they are in protecting children? What is wrong with this picture???
• 
  33

  Dr Applewhite and Conti's case

  by Viva la Vida in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  this is from conti's appeal veredict:.

  monica applewhite, a clinical social worker and an expert on child sexual abuse, testified for defendants that watchtowers policy against disclosing private information .

  very closely mirror[ed] the codes of ethics of the national association of social workers and the american counseling association.

  1. 
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  OrphanCrow

  datadog: I'm still blown away by the fact that the WTBTS hires a Catholic to defend them in cases of pedophilia.

  Me too! And I am blown away that someone from the Catholic Church appears to be untroubled or ignorant of the vitriolic attacks that the JWs have mounted against the Catholic Church in the past.

  Applewhite claims to have done a study of the WTS literature but she must not have read this:

  http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2011041

  Watchtower 2011 1/15

  On the other hand, Christendom deserves the coming destruction for contributing to the spiritual illiteracy common among churchgoers and for its manifest hatred of God’s name. In the Middle Ages, God’s personal name was rather widely known in Europe. That name, represented by four Hebrew letters called the Tetragrammaton and commonly transliterated YHWH (or JHVH), appeared on coins, on facades of houses, in many books and Bibles, and even in some Catholic and Protestant churches. However, the trend in recent times is to eliminate the name of God from Bible translations and from other uses. One indication of this is the Letter to the Bishops’ Conferences on ‘the Name of God,’ dated June 29, 2008, issued by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. In it the Roman Catholic Church advised that the Tetragrammaton in its various renderings should be replaced by “Lord.” The Vatican instructed that God’s personal name should not be used or pronounced in hymns and prayers during Catholic religious services. And the leaders of other religions inside and outside of Christendom have also hidden the identity of the true God from millions upon millions of worshippers.

  I am not sure how to process the hypocrisy of what is playing out in the WTS' use of a Catholic "expert". It it wasn't so funny, it is actually pretty sick. And, after the JWs have attacked the Catholic Church so strongly about their sex abuse poilcies. Is there not a WT article about the Catholic Church and sex abuse?

  *I have had the song by Frank Zappa - Catholic Girls - playing in my head all day! ...it is so bad...