Posts by OrphanCrow

3

Upton Sinclair "The Profits of Religion."

by ctrwtf in

jw
friends

what a great read.

what's interesting is that this was written in 1917. right about the time when the wt was being born.

he doesn't mention jw's directly but does mention the millerites.

OrphanCrow

Ctrwtf, I actually thought that Sinclair was pretty light on Russell.

I like his little footnote after his very brief mention of Russell:

P.S. A few months pass, and while this book is going to
press, “The Finished Mystery” is suppressed by the government
and several score “Bible Students” are landed
in jail for sedition.

I lost my notes I had made on the Golden Age articles, but I seem to remember that Upton Sinclair got a plug for his book Brass Check in one of the issues. The early Golden Age magazines published many articles supporting socialist views.

3

Upton Sinclair "The Profits of Religion."

by ctrwtf in

jw
friends

what a great read.

what's interesting is that this was written in 1917. right about the time when the wt was being born.

he doesn't mention jw's directly but does mention the millerites.

OrphanCrow

He doesn't mention JW's directly but does mention the Millerites.

No, Sinclair doesn't mention the JWs because they were known as Bible Students at the time he wrote this essay.

In Book 6 of The Profits of Religion, in the chapter titled Bible Prophecy (pg 203) Sinclair speaks of Pastor Russell and the Bible Students.

Upton Sinclair was spoken of favorably in the Golden Age magazines during the years that the WTS was pro-Socialist.

33

When a Witness claim the uniqueness of Bible and its accurate prophecies!

by abiather in

with the bulletin of atomic scientists moving its iconic doomsday clock up 2 minutes on 23.01.2015 (which means we are just three minutes closer to midnight in comparison to 17 minutes to midnight in 1991), and rapturewatch.net/timelines.htm predicting the end of the world as early as 2017, subject of last days is getting heated up again..

next time you have a witness boasts about the uniqueness of biblical propheciesespecially about last days, you can point the following photographic description of our times found in srimad bhagavatam, one of the ancient scriptures written even before the bible:.

1) religion, truthfulness, cleanliness, tolerance, mercy, duration of life, physical strength and memory will all diminish day by day because of the powerful influence of the age of kali (age of unrigteousness).12.2.1.

OrphanCrow

you can point the following photographic description of our times found in Srimad Bhagavatam, one of the ancient scriptures written even before the Bible:

Huh?

"Photographic" description? From "ancient scriptures written even before the Bible"?

Seriously?

20

A random HISTORY of that old rugged cross used by JW's until 1931

by TerryWalstrom in

corinthians 1:18, holman christian standard bible "for to those who are perishing the message of the cross is foolishness, but to us who are being saved it is gods power.

an austrian radiologist, hermann moedder, experimented with medical students in the 40's, hanging them by their wrists with their hands directly above their heads (much like the watchtower pictures jesus on a stake).

in a few minutes, the students became pale, their lung capacity dropped from 5.2 to 1.5 liters, blood pressure decreased and the pulse rate increased.

OrphanCrow

An Austrian radiologist, Hermann Moedder, experimented with medical students in the 40's, hanging them by their wrists with their hands directly above their heads (much like the Watchtower pictures Jesus on a stake). In a few minutes, the students became pale, their lung capacity dropped from 5.2 to 1.5 liters, blood pressure decreased and the pulse rate increased. Moedder concluded that inability to breathe would occur in about six minutes if they were not allowed to stand and rest.
The same would apply to Christ, IF he were suspended on a stake as the Watchtower depicts him, hung from hands bound directly overhead, he would have suffocated in a matter of minutes.

Terry, I often thought that this WT depiction of Jesus was physically impossible:

There is an photographic image that exists that depicts individuals strung up on posts. It is a staged photograph illustrating the punishment posts that are alleged to have been used by the SS during WW2 in Germany. The photograph was taken in 1958 but it shows how a person would look if they were hung on a stake.

50

How do Americans feel about Canadians and Britons interjecting their opinions onto hot localized political topics: gun laws, abortion, ect?

by adjusted knowledge in

jw
friends

in addition to the above question, why do citizens of the two above mentioned countries, or other countries, feel the necessity to tell americans how they should interpret the american constitution for localized issues?.

i fairly much have an idea what the general population in the usa feels in regards to the first question.

this could be one of the possible reasons cnn piers morgan poor ratings and eventual firing.

OrphanCrow

Yes, I can understand Americans who get pissed off when someone from another country sticks their nose into something they don't understand.

It is sort of like Ellen Degeneres mouthing off about the seal hunt in Canada when she knows nothing at all about it. Or some celebrity from Britain deciding that they have the right to disrupt traditional Canadian hunting that has been done for centuries. It is called wildlife management, you idiots!

So, on one hand, we have the know-nothing celebrities taking shots at the Canadian seal hunting, and then on the other hand, we have the ultra rich American hunters coming up from Texas and shooting our cattle because they think they are moose!

72

Last nights meeting...

by DATA-DOG in

i know dubs are delusional.

i know dubs don't reason well.

i know dubs are a bit off, like many groups.

OrphanCrow

It was not the norm to see pre-teens getting baptized, although if you go back even further (50+ years), it did happen more often, based on what my mother has told me.

Cadellin, my mother was dunked when she was six years old. Back in 1939 - right at the start of WW2, there was a concerted effort to baptize children. The parents thought it would ensure their children's survival of the impending Armageddon - the Final War. *to add - I spoke to her recently about this - she is now 81. She said this:" When they asked me if I wanted to live forever and survive the war, of course I said Yes. I was only six - I wanted to make my mom and dad happy. I didn't know anything else. i was only six!"

The War years were ripe times for child baptism in the Watchtower - Rutherford did his final appearance at the infamous Children assemblies in 1941 and the assembly report for St. Louis says:

There have been thousands of children at other Watchtower assemblies, but never before were 15,000, who had been previously registered, seated entirely by themselves in the main portion of one of the world's greatest auditoriums. Never before were more than 1,300 children immersed at one time.

The age to register the children at that assembly was all those between 5 to 18. I don't know if any 5 year olds were baptized but there are reports of 6 year olds being immersed at that time.

109

Happy at Bethel. Can't believe what I'm seeing.

by Pubsinger in

apologies if this has already been posted but i am speechless.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnbmyudrwgs&x-yt-ts=1422327029&x-yt-cl=84838260#t=72.

OrphanCrow

But then again, I am easily amused and my tastes are questionable.

I think the video was meant as an 'internal' motivational tool. It goes along with the re-branding and re-marketing that is happening with the WTS. The video is a corporate tool designed to motivate workers - Bethel is sort of like working for WalMart or one of those cult-like big stores that sing songs before each shift.

Methinks there is much ado ahappening inside the Watchtower stronghold - their strategies are about re-grouping and re-aligning...I wonder who is in line for the boot? The WTS' behaviors all point to major divisions inside the power base.

49

Jehovah's Witnesses requesting financial transparency in Spain

by JHK in

two jehovah's witnesses requesting financial transparency in spain branch.

one picture in the assembly hall and another on the bridge.. .

http://johnhenrykurtz.blogspot.com.es/2015/01/transparencia-financiera-llegara-antes.html.

OrphanCrow

Besides that every JW is part of the organisation. So if the organisation is forced to pay things they collectively share the burden.

InsideKH, I see.

Isn't that exactly what the court cases, that the WTS is fighting right now over child abuse settlements, are all about? That the 'organization' is 'arm's length' from its members?

It sounds to me like 'having your cake and eating it too'...

67

Exactly what is the HISTORIC view of the DIVINE or of what being GOD meant long ago?

by TerryWalstrom in

the purpose of this topic is twofold.. first, any who are endlessly fascinated by scholarship, practised by genuine bible scholars, are urged by me to do what i did, subscribe to bart ehrman's blog.

the subscription money (as little as $3.95) goes entirely to charity.. secondarily, by broadening our view of the new testament era on up through two millennia to the present day, our knowledge of all things 'christian' is deepened to include actual knowledge (as opposed to watchtower fabrication.

by this i don't mean to imply you'll fall to your knees and get saved, but rather, you'll simply have facts to inform your present transitional mindset toward whatever end you finally choose.. now .

OrphanCrow

Jonathan, Vivane's position is supported by evidence.

The discovery of the Ugarit tablets in 1928 has shed much light on the cultures that influenced the Old Testament writings.

http://www.theology.edu/ugarbib.htm

The Ugaritic Pantheon.
The prophets of the Old Testament rail against Baal, Asherah and various other gods on nearly every page. The reason for this is simple to understand; the people of Israel worshipped these gods along with, and sometimes instead of, Yahweh, the God of Israel. This Biblical denunciation of these Canaanite gods received a fresh face when the Ugaritic texts were discovered, for at Ugarit these were the very gods that were worshipped.
El was the chief god at Ugarit. Yet El is also the name of God used in many of the Psalms for Yahweh; or at least that has been the presupposition among pious Christians. Yet when one reads these Psalms and the Ugaritic texts one sees that the very attributes for which Yahweh is acclaimed are the same for which El is acclaimed. In fact, these Psalms were most likely originally Ugaritic or Canaanite hymns to El which were simply adopted by Israel, much like the American National Anthem was set to a beer hall tune by Francis Scott Key. El is called the “father of men”, “creator”, and “creator of the creation”. These attributes are also granted Yahweh by the Old Testament.
For instances, read KTU 1. 2 I 13-32 and compare it to many of the Psalms. Also, read Ps 82:1, 89:6-8mn!).
In 1 Kings 22:19-22 we read of Yahweh meeting with his heavenly council. This is the very description of heaven which one finds in the Ugaritic texts. For in those texts the “sons of god” are the sons of El.
Other deities worshipped at Ugarit were El Shaddai, El Elyon, and El Berith. All of these names are applied to Yahweh by the writers of the Old Testament. What this means is that the Hebrew theologians adopted the titles of the Canaanite gods and attributed them to Yahweh in an effort to eliminate them. If Yahweh is all of these there is no need for the Canaanite gods to exist! This process is known as assimilation.
Besides the chief god at Ugarit there were also lesser gods, demons, and goddesses. The most important of these lesser gods were Baal (familiar to all readers of the Bible), Asherah (also familiar to readers of the Bible), Yam (the god of the sea) and Mot (the god of death). What is of great interest here is that Yam is the Hebrew word for sea and Mot is the Hebrew word for death! Is this because the Hebrews also adopted these Canaanite ideas as well? Most likely they did.
One of the most interesting of these lesser deities, Asherah, plays a very important role in the Old Testament. There she is called the wife of Baal; but she is also known as the consort of Yahweh! That is, among some Yahwists, Ahserah is Yahweh’s female counterpart!
....
....
As had already been mentioned, one of the more important lesser deities at Ugarit was Baal. Baal is described as the “rider on the clouds” in KTU 1.3 II 40. Interestingly enough, this description is also used of Yahweh in Psalm 68:5.
In the Old Testament Baal is named 58 times in the singular and 18 times in the plural. The prophets protested constantly against the love affair the Israelites had with Baal (cf. Hosea 2:19, for example). The reason Israel was so attracted to Baal was that, first of all, some Israelites viewed Yahweh as a God of the desert and so when they arrived in Canaan they thought it only proper to adopt Baal, the god of fertility. As the old saying goes, “whose land, his god”. For these Israelites Yahweh was useful in the desert but not much help in the land.
There is one Ugaritic text which seems to indicate that among the inhabitants of Ugarit, Yahweh was viewed as another son of El. KTU 1.1 IV 14 says:
sm . bny . yw . ilt
“The name of the son of god, Yahweh.”
This text seems to show that Yahweh was known at Ugarit, though not as the Lord but as one of the many sons of El.
Among the other gods worshipped at Ugarit there are Dagon, Tirosch, Horon, Nahar, Resheph, Kotar Hosis, Shachar (who is the equivalent of Satan), and Shalem. The folks at Ugarit were also plagued by a host of demons and lesser gods. The people at Ugarit saw the desert as the place which was most inhabited by demons (and they were like the Israelites in this belief). KTU 1.102:15-28 is a list of these demons.
One of the most famous of the lesser deities at Ugarit was a chap named Dan’il. There is little doubt that this figure corresponds to the Biblical Daniel; while predating him by several centuries. This has led many Old Testament scholars to suppose that the Canonical prophet was modeled on him. His story is found in KTU 1.17 - 1.19.

49

Elders in Spain Steal Millions from Congregation

by cappytan in

these men are appointed by holy spirit,.

here is the source: http://www.economiadigital.es/es/notices/2015/01/la-fiscalia-imputa-una-estafa-de-mas-de-170-millones-de-euros-a-una-congregacion-de-testigos-de-jeho-65161.php.

basically, if you don't know spanish, it boils down to this: (my personal editorial of what i've read).

OrphanCrow

they broke the rule, you can steal from individual jws and get away with it but never, never steal from the organization.

Blondie...can you elaborate on involvement of "the organization" in this affair? Maybe it is because I have limited skills in Spanish...but...I didn't pick up that the elders were stealing from the organization.

How does this latest episode of thievery within the JWs involve "the organization"?