Posts by OrphanCrow

24

Legal scholars: JW court cases before Supreme Court were "accidental wins."

by TerryWalstrom in

the outcomes of jehovah's witness court cases, to most first amendment scholars, the witness successes in court, especially the supreme court, were accidental.

legal scholars have uniformly dismissed the witnesses' methods for bringing about first amendment cases, referring to their legal successes as mere unintended consequences of fanatical preaching.

for example, legal scholar bernard schwartz noted that jehovah's witnesses, "who became involved in trouble with the law were only seeking to propagate their unpopular creed.

OrphanCrow

Ask yourself how you were able to determine the author was in agreement with the WT and you'll have to answer, "I read it for myself in the link provided by Terry."

Actually, Terry, I didn't read the paper in the link you provided. I read that paper some time ago and the author does take the position that the legal strategy dealing with First Amendment rights was a planned endeavor by the Watchtower Society's legal team.

I did not get the impression that the author was "in agreement with the WT." I got the impression that the paper was an attempt to re-contextualize pre-existing opinions within the legal community about these legal cases being purely 'accidental'.

The quote that you presented was simply the author presenting differing/existing opinions to her thesis. It was a quote of quotes.

I am sorry if I didn't 'get' the title of your thread - when I read the thread title, it appeared like the thread is about legal scholars who say that the WTS legal strategies were accidental. Henderson's paper you quote from does not support this position.

6

Have there been any existing cultural group made up of rationalists with neither a religion or a mythology?

by James Mixon in

disbelief is the default position, no one is born having a belief.

beliefs are.

acquired through culture and education, we all know that.

OrphanCrow

North America. Some North American indian tribes believed in a god, but did
not actively worship it, their philosophy, "Our grandfathers and our great-
grandfathers were won't to contemplate the earth alone, solicitous only
to see whether the plain afford grass and water for their horses. They
never troubled themselves about what went on in the heavens, and who
was the creator and governor of the stars.

James, do you have a source for that statement? That statement flies in the face of everything I know about Native American culture and the history of that culture.

About your opening question : Communism.

Keep in mind that political groups are culturally defined. Political groups and religious groups and social groups are cultural entities.

*edit to add: the question of mythology is a complex one - even 'rational' groups have the need to develop mythology to substantiate and maintain their philosophies. As Georges Bataille said: The greatest contemporary myth is that there is no myth.

24

Legal scholars: JW court cases before Supreme Court were "accidental wins."

by TerryWalstrom in

the outcomes of jehovah's witness court cases, to most first amendment scholars, the witness successes in court, especially the supreme court, were accidental.

legal scholars have uniformly dismissed the witnesses' methods for bringing about first amendment cases, referring to their legal successes as mere unintended consequences of fanatical preaching.

for example, legal scholar bernard schwartz noted that jehovah's witnesses, "who became involved in trouble with the law were only seeking to propagate their unpopular creed.

OrphanCrow

The text that gives context to the selected quote (of quotes) in the OP:

To these scholars and others, the Jehovah's Witness had no legal strategy.
They simply fell headlong into Supreme Court litigation.
These simple explanations for Witness legal activities disregard the complex plan devised by Watchtower executives and carried out by hundreds of men and women to combat local literature distribution and permit ordinances. In reality, the Witnesses' success in the Supreme Court was more organizational than accidental.

24

Legal scholars: JW court cases before Supreme Court were "accidental wins."

by TerryWalstrom in

the outcomes of jehovah's witness court cases, to most first amendment scholars, the witness successes in court, especially the supreme court, were accidental.

legal scholars have uniformly dismissed the witnesses' methods for bringing about first amendment cases, referring to their legal successes as mere unintended consequences of fanatical preaching.

for example, legal scholar bernard schwartz noted that jehovah's witnesses, "who became involved in trouble with the law were only seeking to propagate their unpopular creed.

OrphanCrow

Terry, I have read the article by Henderson and I think that your opening post misrepresents her paper and focus of research.

It appears, both from your title and your selection of text to use for quotes, that she is in agreement with the statements that you selected. The statements you selected from her paper were presented as opposing views to her thesis.

Henderson is not in agreement with the selected text - she is stating those things as pre-existing views in scholarly circles, and her paper is an attempt to correct those misconceptions.

The thesis of her paper is that the First Amendment legal cases that were won by the WTS were carefully planned, and that the WTS had a legal strategy that was not at all "accidental".

71

TO THE STUPID ATHEISTS:

by atheist_R_stupid in

being that this is not "ex jws" and in fact, more driven by atheists talking a bunch of crap, im not even going to address you people like you know anything about jws because you dont.

nor am i going to assume you know the bible because none of you do.. and yes, im speaking down at you all because you men have actually went out your way to make a site to speak down at an entire group of people.

yet i bet you cant even handle a single uswer talking down at you, like you talk down about jws can you?.

OrphanCrow

Embiggening vocabulary and spelling:

Pallet:

Palate:

71

TO THE STUPID ATHEISTS:

by atheist_R_stupid in

being that this is not "ex jws" and in fact, more driven by atheists talking a bunch of crap, im not even going to address you people like you know anything about jws because you dont.

nor am i going to assume you know the bible because none of you do.. and yes, im speaking down at you all because you men have actually went out your way to make a site to speak down at an entire group of people.

yet i bet you cant even handle a single uswer talking down at you, like you talk down about jws can you?.

OrphanCrow

Anyone else?

Oatmeal cookies and tomato juice. So good.

28

A Mind at War

by cappytan in

right now, i feel like my mind is at war with itself.. on the one side is reason, logic.. on the other is tradition, hope and fear.. reason and logic are challenging life-long beliefs.

they are telling me, "is this any more believable than the story of the lord of the rings?".

certain doctrines of my belief system are crumbling.. my mind still wants to hold on to the belief in a creator, his son jesus and the bible.

OrphanCrow

Do I take that path? Or do I ignore my reason and thinking ability to preserve such things as family, friends and comfort?

Cappytan, stay true to yourself. When you look in the mirror, it is best if you see yourself honestly - when all the chips are down, you are the one who has to live with yourself.

Fear is hard to conquer. Cultivate courage. Be fearless.

125

WTS leader rants against higher education

by hoser in

jw
friends

on jw tv.

anthony morris is ranting against higher education.

he is blaming parents for enrolling their kids in college.

OrphanCrow

The Watchtower Society's stance against university is grounded in its historical roots.

During the late 1800s and early 1900s, home study courses that were designed to focus on specific trades and bodies of knowledge were developed by the International Correspondence School. These home study courses were promoted as being beneficial because they did not include any other knowledge than that which was applicable to one particular trade.

At about the same time that Thomas Foster was developing ICS' home study courses, Charles Russell published and sold his Home Bible Study course.

Two early cohorts of Russell, Clayton Woodworth and George Fisher, were heavily involved in the ICS. They were both textbook writers for ICS at the time that they wrote The Finished Mystery.

Clayton J.Woodworth did much of the writing for The Golden Age magazine and the correspondence school influence is apparent in some of the articles. For example, the Feb. 18, 1920 issue of The Golden Age (pg 339) has an article on the bee keeping industry and at one point in the article the author gives a plug for correspondence schools:

Mail order courses in beekeeping are also to be had for the benefits of those unable to attend college

The anti-university stance of the WTS has been around since its inception.

33

what type of faith do you REALLY want?

by atheist_R_stupid in

i find that when talking people who say they "used to be a jehovah's witness" they say words that show they have in fact, never been one.

it's like a man that worked for the post office for 30 years in a main major urban hub like chicago or new york... and you ask him, "in your last position, what was your rdo?

" and the man says "whats an rdo?".

OrphanCrow

Sometimes you might "pull a nooner" (leave at lunch)

Oh.

I always went back to work after 'pulling a nooner'.

111

Conti Appeal Preview - Oral Argument Jan 14

by Chaserious in

with hopefully a good deal of interest here in the conti appeal tomorrow (or later today, depending on where you are), i thought that on my ride home from work tonight i'd preview what to expect and what i think the key issues are for any who are interested.

i have had a busy few weeks and haven't had time to read everything, but i had some time to look at the appeal briefs during my work commute the past couple days.

it'll be interesting to see what develops out of the network news coverage of this case.

OrphanCrow

Your point seems to be that the elders were well-intentioned rubes who didn't realize that their actions would put any children in danger.

In a court of law, ignorance does not equal innocence.