Posts by OrphanCrow

25

I now hate being called 'sister'

by purrpurr in

jw
friends

since waking up i find i am bridling at being called 'sister'.

but it feels like an identity that is being forced on me.. i feel like shouting "i have a name you know!".

it is just me or does anyone else recognise this?.

OrphanCrow

Another thing about "brother" and "sister"...

I always remember the unmarried as being - "bachelor brother" and "single sister". BB and SS.

And...brother and sister are terms used in fraternal or benevolent organizations - the "brotherhood" and the "sisterhood". (*just saw you had posted that, VillageIdiot...)

And another thing...it implies that the JWs are all this one big happy family - Big Brother (the GB) and other "Society" men with membership into that elite club, use the term to imply humility. when they are anything but humble. The just baptized 12 year old "brother" is a long way from the top Big Brothers.

25

I now hate being called 'sister'

by purrpurr in

jw
friends

since waking up i find i am bridling at being called 'sister'.

but it feels like an identity that is being forced on me.. i feel like shouting "i have a name you know!".

it is just me or does anyone else recognise this?.

OrphanCrow

I abhor the way that the JWs use the terms "brother" and "sister".

Especially "sister" - I have one sister and the JWs ruined any chance of having a relationship with her except on their terms. The JW religion ruined my sister - she was once a beautiful, vivacious young woman and now she is an aging, bitter, mentally and physically sick woman. I used to get so upset when she would be nasty to me but then speak in glowing terms of "Sister so and so", a woman she hardly knew...I was her sister and she didn't treat me like one. She chose strangers for sisters and kicked me to the curb just because I wasn't a JW anymore.

I especially hate the way that JWs make the distinction of how to tell if you are tallking about a biological connection instead of an artifical one - "fleshly" sister. Geez...what the hell is that? Fleshly? It sounds so creepy...sort of sexualized. Maybe that is their way of sexualizing the 'real' family connection so that they have a way of distinguishing between a "sister" and a, well..."sister" - so they know who can marry the "brother" instead of the....other "brother"...you know.

Frankly, I find the sister and brother terms that are used by the JWs to be incestuous. It is sort of sick, in a way..."sisters, keep your eye on the brothers to see which brother you want to marry!" Or, "sister so and so is marrying brother so and so".

Shouldn't JW kids be calling their parents auntie and uncle instead of mom and dad?? Do JW married couples find it strange to be called "Brother and Sister Jones" at the KH and then go home and sleep together after the meeting is over?

67

Branch Service Department Manual approves appointing Child molestors as Elders

by stuckinamovement in

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/downloadfile.ashx?guid=7ba22716-556c-43c2-9fc6-76697afad440&type=exhibit&filename=wat.0001.004.0076&fileextension=pdf

OrphanCrow

I am trying to wrap my head around this:

18. Factors to consider: At times, the conduct of an individual may not be classified as child abuse from the perspective of the congregation, but from a legal standpoint he may be viewed as guilty of such.

So, the congregation has a different standard to measure child abuse than what the law states it is?

There are things that are not seen as child abuse according to the JWs, that would be seen as such if it was heard in a court of law. In other words, their standards negate abuse in certain circumstances. Their moral standards are lower than worldly standards.

I would like to hear a GB member clarify that distinction - how do the JWs view child abuse differently than the law does?

Is it that view that allows them to appoint child abusers to elder positions? "Oh well, he really isn't a sex offender - it was only his daughter..." Does the "sanctity of the family" that they brag about include the notion that a father is allowed to "make a little slip" once in a while?

There was something published from the WTS, too, that said that not all child abusers are predators. That the WTS decides who is "just" a child sex abuser and who is a predator.

I would like to know how the WTS makes that distinction.

25

SO IM JUST WONDERIN.....

by brandnew in

jw
friends

as the story of "annointed" ones goes.....when their spouse is left behind on earth, are they free to remarry?

that would kinda suck, being in heaven...watching the wifey , or hubby gettin doinked by someone new.

just sayin.....shewt...i got way too much time on my hands..

OrphanCrow

brandnew: But doesnt it say somewhere that angels got all horny checkin out earth chicks n stuff?

Yeah, maybe that is a disfellowshipping offense in the faithful and discrete angel class. Looking at earth chicks makes them into demons - that evil angel class. Demons are disfellowshipped angels. Thrown out on their wings - the apostate angels.

You know...the angels have to abide by the rules in Jehovah's Book of Rules for Angels - he hands those books out to those bigwig angels who get to meet with Michael...he is the angel who really directs all that singing up there.

49

Justice McClellan was annoyed by not being made aware of the authority of Jackson as a GB top dog. Material needed if any one here could ..

by umbertoecho in

hello again.. splash had a pile of scriptural evidence which he uploaded and it was good material.

it established the gb as the fds and used watchtower study articles.........i don't know if he was the only one but the material flew in the face of what those men have been saying.

it proves, using their own material how they indeed think they are the ones with the direct control over millions of lives, because as you know.........they are the direct hot line to god.

OrphanCrow

Contrary to Applewhite's testimony that there isn't any empirical evidence that has been done in her "expert" area, there has been expert investigations and reports done into both the organizational structure and the literature of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

In 2000, these experts submitted their reports to the Supreme Court in Russia:

[V].[P].[Belyanin], the doctor of philological sciences, the professor of the department of psycholinguistics HAZE, the professor of the center of international formation MGU [im]. [M].[V].[Lomonosova], the corresponding member of the academy of humanitarian studies, the academician of Moscow psychotherapeutic academy, the member of the international association of applied psycholinguistics, the member of the board of juridical psychologists;
[M].[M].[Gromyko], the doctor of historical sciences, professor, the main scientific worker of the institute of ethnology and anthropology RAN [Russian Academy of Science]
[D].[A].[Leontev], the doctor of psychological sciences, the docent of the department of psychology of MGU [im]. [M].[V].[Lomonosova], the substitute the chairman of the council of the Moscow department of Russian psychological society;
[S].[A].[Nebolsin], the candidate of philological sciences, that manages by the sector of artistic interactions of the division of theory and methodology of history of literature and [iskusstvoznaniya], the chairman of scientific council for complex problem “Russia, the West and the east” of the institute of world literature RAN [Russian Academy of Science], the member of the administration of the union of the writers of Russia.

The conclusions of the Russian expert reports can be found at this link here:

Russian court expert testimony

a snippet... [iegovy] or [iegove] refers to Jehovah - a Russian translation problem:

As it is indicated in the division of the I, with the expert inspection of the texts of the witnesses Of [iegovy] it is established that they bear negative relation to the peace, they attempt to fence off man from the peace and to intimidate him. By an only way out situation is proposed the service To [iegove], at basis of which lies the subordination of the will of man to the will of this organization.
In contrast to the traditional religions, in the literature and the documents of the witnesses Of [iegovy] the greatest attention is paid to the tactics of behavior with the sermon, to the methods of attraction in the organization, the discussion deals constantly with “the service”.

17

Dude, JW's are getting crushed by the committie!

by thedepressedsoul in

i've been catching up on the videos and news articles.

the elders, lawyers, branch members, hired reports are all getting slammed!

that dude has a response and point to bring up on everything!

OrphanCrow

Greatteacher: Really crazy that none of them seemed to have read the witness statements.

That may have been from their desire to show their adherence to Bible principles. After all, those witness statements would have been viewed as "dragging Jehovah's name through the mud" and therefore, apostate material. Like good little JWs that they must appear, they dutifully did not even read the words of that evil slave class. Those statements would have "demon smell" on them.

Monty Baker's lawyer brought this issue up at one point in the questioning. Of course, it was denied.

There was a well publicized murder trial years back, locally, that involved a prominent politican who had his ex-wife murdered. His testimony on the stand was solid: "Deny, deny, deny." I think that was used as the title of one of the books that was written about the case. I always think of Colin Thatcher when these JWs idiots are on the stand. "Deny, deny, deny."

It didn't do Thatcher any good and I don't think the JWs' tactics are going to help them either. Ignorance is not a defence for innocence. "I don't recall" means "I can't tell."

49

Justice McClellan was annoyed by not being made aware of the authority of Jackson as a GB top dog. Material needed if any one here could ..

by umbertoecho in

hello again.. splash had a pile of scriptural evidence which he uploaded and it was good material.

it established the gb as the fds and used watchtower study articles.........i don't know if he was the only one but the material flew in the face of what those men have been saying.

it proves, using their own material how they indeed think they are the ones with the direct control over millions of lives, because as you know.........they are the direct hot line to god.

OrphanCrow

3rdgen:
Wasn't there a fairly recent Watchtower with an illustration of the world (globe).

This one? April 2013 WT., I think..

A good article too at jwsurvey with WT quotes defining the authority of the Governing Body:

http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/are-jehovahs-witnesses-a-hierarchical-religion-and-does-it-matter

23

Rodney Spinks Lies...

by iwasblind in

hi guys.

i actually have had dealings with rod and found him to be a very reasonable and "non-robotic" man in the past.. i know it should not surprise me, but i was disappointed to hear his lies and half-truths.. they know their stuff and are not easily led, but he tried to lead the royal commission to believe that 2 people could be involved in investigating a claim - which is wrong.. his lack of memory on what parts of the judicial process are biblical - hello - none are.

there are no scriptures that backup the use of 3 men, a body of elders, cutting people off from family and friends, restrictions, etc.. he also lied about the gb being involved in policy creation and changes.. his statement that in all cases, elders are told to inform parents that they can go to the authorities and get the full support of the congregation is not verifiable.

OrphanCrow

Iwasblind: Hi Cappy
Thank you, I understand my wording above was confusing. The commission was asking about 2 people as an investigative committee, but the brothers were saying 2 people (even women - "heaven forbid!") could investigate - however that brothers were talking about 2 people being witnesses - they did not clarify it a matter needs 2 elders to investigate.

Is there not an element of the two witness rule in the way that judicial investigations involve, whenever possible, at least two elders? Are not the two elders viewed as filling the two witness rule for the branch? Is that not why they have a provision for an "observer" elder to watch the collection of evidence when the child accuser is compelled to give them their story? To provide that "second witness" to the testimony itself?

I have understood, correct me if I am wrong, that testimony has to be given to at least two elders because the branch requires that for the report to have standing with them. A single elder's report/witness to the testimony itself is not considered valid.

The micromanagement of this organization is making my head spin!

49

Justice McClellan was annoyed by not being made aware of the authority of Jackson as a GB top dog. Material needed if any one here could ..

by umbertoecho in

hello again.. splash had a pile of scriptural evidence which he uploaded and it was good material.

it established the gb as the fds and used watchtower study articles.........i don't know if he was the only one but the material flew in the face of what those men have been saying.

it proves, using their own material how they indeed think they are the ones with the direct control over millions of lives, because as you know.........they are the direct hot line to god.

OrphanCrow

Would it be helpful for the Royal Commission to be given copies of the "teaching material" that this representative of the Almighty has released on how to parent and how to identify abusers? After all, the "expert" gave testimony on how "the messages" given to JW children and parents exceeded other churches standards for education.

I am thinking of the Sparlock video, that uses "parent-child role reversal strategies", by instilling a responsibility on the child for "Jehovah's feelings".

http://1080plus.com/FuMSqz2L90A.video

Geez,,,this JW father's voice sounds like Arnie:

http://1080plus.com/7uFsk04imLI.video

Jackson has a hand in the teaching material that is produced for the WTS. I hope all those horrible Caleb and Sophie cartoons get looked at and exposed for the terrible indoctrination that they are.

The ice cream video, and the "monster" video - they must have been approved by the teaching department.

Once Jackson's authority is established, he has to account for what his authority produces and the impact those educational materials have, especially material aimed at children and the family structure.

25

How big a deal is the royal commission..? It seems to be not much...

by _Morpheus in

my understanding (very limited and maybe flawed) is that this commission has no teeth.

if thats true why would the org care?

send a few lawyers, go through the motions but in the end.... its a dog parking on a porch.

OrphanCrow

neverendingjourney: I don't see anyone ending up in jail over this.

I do.

Canada's inquiries, similar in scope to the ARC, into Residential School abuses, resulted in many criminal actions against priests and people connected to institutions being investigated. Some of those abusers are sitting in jail right now.

The "Truth and Reconciliation Report" that was recently released in Canada, was years in the making. But it didn't stop the redress payments being started long before the commission was finished with its fact finding.

Whatever things are revealed that are criminal in nature will be dealt with by the agencies who have to become involved. The 1006 cases that have been secret up to now will already be in the hands of the police. We know that the Royal Commission has respect for the law and will have reported suspected crime to those who are in law enforcement.

The Royal Commission's job is exposure - finding the truth. Lots of outside agencies' mission is "truth finding" as well. And those agencies have teeth that they can act with.

I can't wait until the WTS' financial dealings get a fine tooth comb going over them. Tax agencies, for one, have big clout. Their books will get looked at - the Commission does deal with redress.