Posts by OrphanCrow

109

Did judge Rutherford piss off Hitler

by greenhornet in

the jws at the time in germany where considered part of the aryan race, (since they were not jews).

then things changed for the jws after rutherford mailed a letter to hitler bragging about jehovahs kingdom on earth.. so can we add this to the bloodshed that that the watchtower corp is responsible for?.

OrphanCrow

truthseeker: Fascinating stuff Orphan Crow! Tell me more. For some reason I couldn't make the link you provided work.

Thanks. This "stuff" fascinates me as well.

Sorry about that link. Too late to go fix it.

Try this one.

http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/25417/Castle-Estates-Berry-Picking-Personal-Servants-Position?page=1#.VV06TLlViko

109

Did judge Rutherford piss off Hitler

by greenhornet in

the jws at the time in germany where considered part of the aryan race, (since they were not jews).

then things changed for the jws after rutherford mailed a letter to hitler bragging about jehovahs kingdom on earth.. so can we add this to the bloodshed that that the watchtower corp is responsible for?.

OrphanCrow

Giordani: What we had here was Rutherford using the situation to his advantage which didn't turn out to be an advantage.

By the time that the JWs were being given preferential treatment, Rutherford had already died. He had exhibited signs of declining health during the Children of the King summer conventions of 1941 and he didn't live much longer. The Judge passed on January 8, 1942, and it was Knorr who took the reins (of which he, along with Franz, already had a firm grip) and finished up the war years as President of the WTS. It was in 1942, after the Judge died, when conditions began to improve for the JW 'volunteer prisoners'.

109

Did judge Rutherford piss off Hitler

by greenhornet in

the jws at the time in germany where considered part of the aryan race, (since they were not jews).

then things changed for the jws after rutherford mailed a letter to hitler bragging about jehovahs kingdom on earth.. so can we add this to the bloodshed that that the watchtower corp is responsible for?.

OrphanCrow

greenhornet: Very interesting. Good knowledge base

Thank you. I confess to an obsessive interest in the history of the JWs - especially during the Second World War. I realize that some people think that the going-ons of the WTS historically is 'old stuff' and no longer relevant. However, i have been interested in placing the development of the WTS into the larger political picture and examine how the shifts in doctrine and structure were influenced by world events.

If this interests you, you may like to follow up on the research that I base the statements made in my previous posts. References to my primary research, and further discussion on interesting things like the Wewelsburg Castle, can be found on this thread here - located over on the exjw yuku forum.

A Castle, Estates and Berry Picking: Personal Servants and Positions of Privilege

(yeah...I post as birdwoman2 over there)

There is also some information on that thread that originates from this forum - I believe it was a thread by Lady Lee that discusses the WTS' activities during the years leading up to the war. About how Germany, during the late 20s and early 30s, was the testing ground for the re-organizational challenges facing the 'new' religion - the Jehovah's witnesses, AKA Joe's Army.

At the same time that Heinrich Himmler's blossoming SS were complaining about being reduced to magazine salesmen, Rutherford was in Germany trying out ways to improve the placement of his WT propaganda by organizing the Jws into military like units. The SS, in the years prior to becoming the dreaded SS elite corp of the Nazi era, had magazine quotas for the Nazi propaganda magazine they were required to 'place'. Rather ironic, I think.

109

Did judge Rutherford piss off Hitler

by greenhornet in

the jws at the time in germany where considered part of the aryan race, (since they were not jews).

then things changed for the jws after rutherford mailed a letter to hitler bragging about jehovahs kingdom on earth.. so can we add this to the bloodshed that that the watchtower corp is responsible for?.

OrphanCrow

Vidiot: @ OrphanCrow...
Wow.
I didn't know any of that.

Vidiot, there is much about the JWs and Nazi Germany that is not well known. The WTS has been very active in promoting their own version of events but there are many untold stories of what really happened 'over the pond' in Germany leading up to and during the war years.

Rutherford and the German WT prepared well for the events that led to Hitler "getting pissed off" with the "Declaration of Facts" that were presented to him in 1933.

Not only did the German WT have lawyers who were card carrying members of the Nazi party, the convention that was held in Berlin during the summer of 1933 - the same year that Hitler rose to power - was designed to show support of the Nazi party. The stage had Nazi flags hanging behind the speakers, and the opening song was one that had not been used for quite some time within the ranks of the German JWs.

The song chosen to be sung at the JW 1933 Berlin convention was set to the music of Adolph Hitler's favorite song - one that the German soldiers had sang at the front during the First World War, a soldier's song which had been adopted as the German national anthem in 1922..

Nevertheless, in spite of the efforts of Rutherford to ingratiate the JWs with Hitler by all these preparations (including a history of espousing eugenics in a 1931 Golden Age magazine), where Rutherford failed to please Hitler was in his assertion that the world would be ruled by God - Rutherford laid claim to the Thousand Year Reign of Christ whereas Hitler saw the Thousand Year Reign about to occur on the heels of WW2, as being ruled by the Third Reich. It was on that critical point that Hitler and Rutherford disagreed and Hitler got pissed at Rutherford.

I had said in my other post that Rutherford didn't really piss off Hitler, but he did - he challenged the authority of the Third Reich and, in response, retaliated against Hitler with the JW leaflet campaigns. This resulted in many more arrests of both JWs and Bible Students - of those imprisoned, over half would sign the allegiance to Germany and get released. Of those remaining, it eventually became more advantageous not to sign - signing meant that you would get sent to the front.

The WTS brags about those "who stood up to Hitler" but fails to mention those who collaborated with the Nazis, and those who did sign the release forms required that showed allegiance to Nazi Germany.

The WTS also fails to mention the many, many JWs who were placed in privileged positions both within, and outside of, the work camps. Positions that ensured that many of the JWs sat out the war in relative comfort and safety. These JW 'volunteer prisoners' were considered 'partially free' by the end of the war, released on a handshake by the SS man himself - Heinrich Himmler.

And it is that man - Heinrich Himmler, the head of the SS - that is the one is the most interesting to investigate when examining the JWs in Germany during WW2.

109

Did judge Rutherford piss off Hitler

by greenhornet in

the jws at the time in germany where considered part of the aryan race, (since they were not jews).

then things changed for the jws after rutherford mailed a letter to hitler bragging about jehovahs kingdom on earth.. so can we add this to the bloodshed that that the watchtower corp is responsible for?.

OrphanCrow

Rutherford didn't really "piss off Hitler".

Hitler hated, and had nothing but contempt, for the Bible Students. Hitler had fought in the First World War and expressed his dislike of the evangelical soldiers who served on the front lines. He blamed them for reducing morale on the front lines. He speaks of this in Mein Kampf.

Something that few JWs know is that the Bible Students in Germany donned the German uniform in WW1 - the German Watchtowers listed the Bible Students who served, and those who died, defending Germany. At the same time, the Watchtowers from other countries extolled the virtues of the Bible Students who refused to serve their countries.

In 1925, Rutherford had a huge falling out with the German WT branch, resulting in Conrad Binkele splitting form the WTS, and taking a large number of German Bible Students with him. The German WT saw a great chism happen with few left to follow Rutherford's 'new' theology. (more about that later...)

At the same time, trouble was brewing on American soil and the same thing happened - about 75% of the Bible Students left the WTS.

And...another thing happened in 1925 - Hitler wrote Mein Kampf - the sales of which went to finance his new political party - the National Socialist Party. The book - Mein Kampf - was purported to have been read by anyone and everyone who had interest in world politics - many copies were given away to world leaders and people in politics.

I have no doubt that Rutherford and others in the WTS read Mein Kampf. Their entire religion was based on political events and world conditions.

Back to 1925 - it was around this time - the years between 1925 and 1931 - that Rutherford made a radical change in the WT doctrine. Very radical. Rutherford changed the doctrine that Russell had vigorously espoused for all the years he was the figurehead - the Zionist doctrine. Russell fully supported the return of the Jews to Palestine. It was an integral part of his theology.

So, by the time that 1931 rolled around, the WT religion needed a new name - it was a very different doctrine that Rutherford introduced - replacement theology. The articles published in the WT that supported the Jews returning to Palestine were now replaced with the promise of the New Jerusalem being realized out in California - in Beth Sarim, the mansion that Rutherford built with the support of the Coca-Cola Heath family.

In 1933, when Germany seized the printing presses of the German WT, Rutherford believed he had a solid case to make to Hitler to get the WT property returned (under conditions of the Versailles treaty that allowed American corporations to operate in Germany). The case he made in the letter to Hitler was based upon the assertion that the WT no longer was the same as the Bible Students - and it wasn't the same.

The stories and events that have been recorded about the JWs in WW2 are conflicting - and that is because the religion of the WT was split - there were many of the 'old' Bible Students who still supported Russell's Zionist doctrine imprisoned along with the 'new' JWs who did not support Zionism. The work camps became the place where this 'sifting' occurred. Along with the accounts of Bible Students being killed and tortured, are the accounts of the JWs who received special privileges from Himmler's SS.

By the time the war ended in 1945, Himmler had made arrangements to release the JWs sent on work assignments with just a handshake - they didn't have to sign a declaration denouncing their religion. The JWs who took these privileged positions with the SS were considered 'partially free'.

Himmler's plans for after the war included using the JWs as a vanguard in areas that Germany would have control. Himmler had great admiration for the JWs loyalty - the same quality that he held his SS troops to.

Some researchers have pointed to 1942 as the date that the JWs started to be treated better in the work camps. There are various reason given as to why this occurred, but what is left out of the narrative is that Rutherford died in 1942. It was Knorr who was in charge of the WT when this apparent shift in treatment occurred.

22

The 1919 issue

by confused in

i am not a regular visitor to this site, every now and then then i get twisted up about something i come back lol.

i am sure this has been discussed many times so a link to another thread would be great or if someone has the patience to explain again please?

i have read the july 15 2013 wt many times but i simply don't understand the significance of 1919 from the bible.

OrphanCrow

Pick an event, find a scripture to make is so.

The "event' in 1919 that the WTS tries so desperately to say is a Biblical event, was simply that the WTS bought their own printing presses that year. 1919 was the year that the WTS truly owned their own production method - they "owned" the "word".

Ever since 1919, the WTS has tried to justify this earthshaking event by ascribing Biblical interpretation to it when all that happened was a financial maneuver.

Wm Hudgings, when speaking at the Cedar Point convention in 1919, revealed that the reason the WTS KNEW that God had blessed them that year, was because of....the significance of the number "7" in the events that led up to 1919.

20

Pioneer Service School Adjustment for 2014

by bnybyt in

the pioneer service school will now be only one week, monday thru saturday.. it will consist of 40 hours of instruction and illustrations/presentations.. the reasong given is that this will make it more accessible to the pioneers for due to work schedules and for congregations having to sponsor and support the school.. it will make it easier on everyone and those who haven't attended in the last five years may be able to attend this school with the new curriculum.. .

what do you feel would be included in the new curriculum.

probably more worship of the governing body and they don't need two whole weeks to get this across.. .

OrphanCrow

Oh. Sweet.

Now when they make up their Linkedin profiles, they can add 40 hours of 'Pioneer School' to their education levels. They just have to stay current on the Awake magazine and they will be fully educated.

.

47

WT Conspiracy Theory - Pinky Ring - DUMB, I know

by cappytan in

oh man, i know i'm gonna catch flack for this.. everyone sees masonic conspiracies everywhere.. i am not a conspiracy theorist.

i don't honestly believe the governing body are freemasons.. yet, probably due to cruising this site and seeing all the masonic conspiracy threads, i saw this when looking for a shot of lett's pinky ring to show how he wore one in october, but then took it off in may to ask for money.. .

original is on the left, and on the right, i played with the brightness/contrast to get it to show up a little better.. what does the pattern on his ring look like to you?.

OrphanCrow

Morpheus: @crow- if they made those for men i would buy ten

Geez, I don't know why I didn't pick up on that Ringlys are for women! Duh.

Eh...maybe the GB are doing test runs for the men's model that is promised to be out soon. You know, like Rutherford did with that radium belt he used to wear.

Or, maybe the GB really do like 'girly' things, after all. Pinky rings are so...umm...you know...not very masculine. I would think that a pinky ring would rank right up there with tight pants and spandex. :p

5

guy says he's not guilty of murder because victim refused blood transfusion that could've saved him

by Question_Mans_interpretation in

i wonder if the guy will get off the hook for murder since the jw died during surgery that he refused blood for.

http://www.fresnobee.com/2015/05/15/4526968/did-fresno-shooting-victims-religious.html.

OrphanCrow

This case has similarities to one that happened in California in 1998. In that situation, a drunk driver hit a JW woman, she refused blood and died. The state tried to convict him of murder, but the jury assigned blame for her death equally. The drunk driver got ten years for manslaughter.

http://amarillo.com/stories/1998/12/19/usn_ddriver.shtml#.VVqL0rlViko

There is a good discussion about the case, and the legal dilemmas that it posed, on this site here:

http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml9928.htm

47

WT Conspiracy Theory - Pinky Ring - DUMB, I know

by cappytan in

oh man, i know i'm gonna catch flack for this.. everyone sees masonic conspiracies everywhere.. i am not a conspiracy theorist.

i don't honestly believe the governing body are freemasons.. yet, probably due to cruising this site and seeing all the masonic conspiracy threads, i saw this when looking for a shot of lett's pinky ring to show how he wore one in october, but then took it off in may to ask for money.. .

original is on the left, and on the right, i played with the brightness/contrast to get it to show up a little better.. what does the pattern on his ring look like to you?.

OrphanCrow

Geez...the rings are Ringlys. When the light flashes on them, it looks like a triangle.

No Masonic sign. Just light bouncing off a cut stone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5c06ayfTYs