OrphanCrow

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Posts by OrphanCrow

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  18

  Welcome to all "lurkers" and new forum members!

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it seems like we have had quite a few new members join up over the last few months!.

  has anyone else noticed this?.

  i guess that most of us "lurked" here for some time before we got the courage to actually join up and start as a proper forum member?

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  OrphanCrow

  I am 'new'. Sort of.

  I 'lurked' and mined this forum for years before I was able to join.

  Lol! I guess it took changing location to be able to sign up...I had tried many times over the last few years before I was able to log in.

  Dunno what that was all about but, I made use of the site anyways - there is tons and tons of excellent research in the archived topics on this forum.

  Kudos to all the members who have done such hard work for so many years.

  Thank you, you helped me out a lot long before I even joined.

  :D Crow
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  38

  major split among JWs

  by sidex in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am a jehovah's witness from siberia.

  please tell us who knows what and where thesplits occurred after the death of rutherford.

  now in russia there are many schisms.. .

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  OrphanCrow

  Some information I discovered recently:

  https://archive.org/details/GeneralAssemblyOfJehovahsWitnessesOfJune12001

  thumbnails from video:

  

  

  

  

  

  Here are all materials of Jehovah's witnesses, to wit, text, audio and video. These witnesses of Jehovah have nothing in common with the modern-day Watchtower Society located in New York, U.S.A. They recognize as true activities, beliefs, and literature of the Society only under Russel and Rutherford, that is, untill 1942. Furthermore they believe in Jehovah's will at the present time given by "faithful and wise servant", which will is to proclaim final warning to Satan's organization, according to Daniel 11:44 and other Bible prophecies. In order that this was made known and the name of Jehovah vindicated the witnesses of Jehovah want to share this information with the public and all the peoples of the earth.

  https://archive.org/details/All_Materials_Of_Jehovahs_Witnesses

  "Songs of Praise to Jehovah" sung by Choir of Jehovah's Witnesses separated, who recognize as right and true activities and literature of the Watchtower Society only untill J.F. Rutherford's death.
  
  Song Book of 1928 issue. Songs in Russian and Ukrainian

  https://archive.org/details/Songs_of_Praise_to_Jehovah
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  65

  Doctors and surgeons say no to blood transfusions

  by Mr Negative in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  my mum recently told me that even surgeons won't have blood transfusions, but the common people don't get told this.

  i have also seen or heard others say that a bunch of doctors/health officials/surgeons were asked, at some point, if they would accept a blood transfusion and they all said no.

  is this true?

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  OrphanCrow

  Dr Boyd practised at the Royal Vic, which was close by, and ascociated with The local universities,like MacGill, but he did not strike me primarily as as a research scientist

  Then he shouldn't have been presented as one by the HLC team.

  I am sure he was an excellent doctor. It is implied in the presentation that he didn't lose any of the 500 plus JW women that he had operated on (but maybe he did and that just wasn't mentioned). Because, it would be very unusual if none of his patients had died. According to a study conducted in the Netherlands - Maternal mortality and serious maternal morbidity in Jehovah’s witnesses - it would be expected that at least 7 of those patients would have experienced death http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1471-0528.2009.02191.x/pdf:

  Results The MMR for Jehovah’s witnesses was 68 per 100 000 live
  births. We found a risk of 14 per 1000 for Jehovah’s witnesses to
  experience serious maternal morbidity because of obstetric
  haemorrhage while the risk for the total pregnant population was
  4.5 per 1000.

  a valuable reference practioner with his penchant for minimum blood use practise.

  Exactly. Minimum blood use. This is something that all doctors practice, contrary to what the WTS claims - minimal blood use - NOT abstain from blood. The WTS has taken what is common medical practice and used that position to advocate for no blood whatsoever. This is very critical distinction that the WTS exploits - just look back at the quotes I tracked down - the doctors are being presented to the JWs as advocating no blood when in reality, they advocate minimal blood - a standard practice.

  ...the WTS. has never acknowledged that Blood Transfusions have saved millions of people's lives since its inception into medical practice

  Finkelstein, that is a very important point. Blood transfusions save lives. Bottom line.

  And the other thing that the WTS misrepresents is blood safety. They have demonized blood and have made the JWs terrified of blood transfusions by saying that they are not safe. However, this is just not true. Here is what Mr. Emanuel said about the safety of blood transfusions when speaking at an FDA conference (pg 251) http://www.fda.gov/downloads/biologicsbloodvaccines/newsevents/workshopsmeetingsconferences/ucm133812.pdf)

  ...red cells are just very, very safe, probably the safest intervention that the whole healthcare system uses.
  You know, some of you may know about the six sigmas in production, that if you can get the six sigmas, you know, you're very, very safe. The airline industry gets there, other -- your cell phone gets there and it turns out that, as best as I can see, red cells are probably the only thing we do in the healthcare system that passes the six sigma rate.
  The six sigma rate is 0.4 defects in a million episodes. It's just really tremendously safe.

  red cells are just very, very safe, probably the safest intervention that the whole healthcare system uses

  The WTS should NEVER have got involved in the medical decisions of their members. Never. They give out erroneous advice and people die because of it.
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  65

  Doctors and surgeons say no to blood transfusions

  by Mr Negative in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  my mum recently told me that even surgeons won't have blood transfusions, but the common people don't get told this.

  i have also seen or heard others say that a bunch of doctors/health officials/surgeons were asked, at some point, if they would accept a blood transfusion and they all said no.

  is this true?

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  OrphanCrow

  Sunny23 - Sorry...I don't know what 'GoT' is referring to.

  For several years, I had a crow family that regularly visited my balcony and they would keep me company on my walks - they would follow me everywhere when I was out walking. I became very close to my crow family - they even brought food to me on a couple occasions, but usually it was me feeding them. The mother would bring each new baby to my balcony when they were ready to fly and I got to know several generations of them. I recently moved and had to leave my crows. So, I am now the orphan crow. I miss my crow family a lot...

  was Dr. Boyd an osteopath? or did he not work in a field, in a renown teaching hospital, in a discipline that involves a lot of Fluid loss?

  I don't know if Dr. Boyd is an oesteopath. I will assume he isn't.

  Yes, Dr. Boyd did do as you say.

  from an article already quoted on this thread:

  Boyd recently completed a study of 100 hysterectomy patients who refused blood transfusions, and about 10% were not Jehovah's Witnesses. He says all did well and left the hospital at the same time as patients in the control group. Furthermore, of the 10 control patients who received blood, 8 transfusions "were unnecessary."

  The above statements are problematic. Dr. Boyd's description of his study reveals a fatal flaw in it. Good research methodolgy would not allow for a 'control group' of 10 transfusion patients measured against 90 patients who refuse blood. It is not a sound study design. There can be no randomization in the type of study that Dr. Boyd is describing and therefore the lacks reliability.

  Maybe that is why I have yet to find any of the medical studies that Dr. Boyd claims to have published.

  Prologos - you speak in defense of Dr. Boyd - I can understand that, as doctors willing to take on such a high risk group of patients must be hard to find. I am sure that many pregnant women were happy to have some kind of assurance when potentially facing a life threatening problem when giving birth.

  Do you know Dr. Boyd, prologos? Did you work with him? Do you know what kind of procedures he was using that would have allowed him to operate on so many JW women? JW women who give birth have an elevated risk of death compared to the general population.

  Boyd, head of gynecology at the Royal Victoria Hospital in Montreal, has performed more than 500 procedures on Jehovah's Witnesses
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  102

  Finished Mystery (1917)... The book that Jesus approved...

  by Alfred in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  so a few months ago, a friend sent me an actual copy of finished mystery which was published in 1917 (not a pdf download... the actual book).

  i must say, this was the most disturbing book i have ever had the displeasure of reading.

  but i only read it because this was the main publication that was being distributed worldwide when jesus supposedly chose the watchtower in 1918 and i basically wanted to see for myself what jesus saw in the wt that would compel him to choose this religious corporation over all other religious denominations.. anyway, if anyone is interested in knowing the actual contents of this book, here are some bullet points i put together from some of the notes i took as i read the book:.

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  OrphanCrow

  Thank you, OP, for doing the work to put together a synopsis.

  Pahpa said:

  It is rather ironic that the book, The Finished Mystery, that caused such a great

  stir at Bethel upheld the exalted view of Russell even though its publication

  was strictly against the wishes of Russell. It was one of the major

  factors that led the Bible Students to leave the organization and organize

  their own groups.

  It wasn't The Finished Mystery that Russell prohibited in his will - it was publishing The Golden Age magazine that was the issue. Russell had stipulated in his will that the WTS should never publish another magazine besides The Watchtower. When The Golden Age was first published, it was published under a different publisher than the WTS - but the publishers were Bible Students - the WTS eventually came clean about its true connection to the WTS.

  The Finished Mystery was actually written by Clayton Woodworth and George Fisher - both men were textbook writers for the International Correspondence School - it is unknown as to how much of the material in the book is actually Russell's or how much has been modified/added by the co-authors Woodworth and Fisher.

  I took your list and compared it with the pdf copy of the 1918 finished mystery and it all matches up.

  That may be - but the 'offending pages' that were the point of issue in the court trial of Rutherford and his cohorts in 1918, were removed in later editions. The pages that were removed were considered to be 'seditious' to the US government:

  http://www.armageddonmuseum.com/jfrtrial2.htm

  FAMOUS PAGES IN QUESTION: The Finished Mystery book, in its original publication contained more pages than what was later revised after Rutherford and company were sent to prison. But the pages read in Court may not be the same as copies some now have in their libraries, but they are as follows: [b]Pages 247-253, 289, 406, Sub-title, “They have blown the Trumpet” ... , page 407, and 469

  The WTS, in their revised history of events, has shifted the focus of what the banning of the book was motivated by. Their publication makes the assertion that "In the United States, the irate clergy used the war hysteria as an excuse to get the book banned. In other countries the book was censored. "

  This is not true. The leaders of the WTS were charged with sedition and treason. For an accurate view of why the book was banned, check out this site here http://www.armageddonmuseum.com/jfrtrial1.htm

  The issue in the Indictment is about the Society and its officers actively inducing members of the Armed forces to insubordination, refusal of duty, disloyalty, and mutiny.
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  65

  Doctors and surgeons say no to blood transfusions

  by Mr Negative in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  my mum recently told me that even surgeons won't have blood transfusions, but the common people don't get told this.

  i have also seen or heard others say that a bunch of doctors/health officials/surgeons were asked, at some point, if they would accept a blood transfusion and they all said no.

  is this true?

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  OrphanCrow

  The Watchtower always made it clear that the prohibition of blood was NOT based on any practical health benefit (although they always brought it up) but was based strictly on God's law of the sanctity of blood

  Well, the WTS didn't do that in the Russian court documents and they don't do that in many of thier bloodless promotions. They clearly take quotes out of context and clearly use mis-quoted 'expert opinions' to give the appearance that their blood doctrine is supported by the medical community.

  No, the WTS is not clear - they deliberately obscure the facts.
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  65

  Doctors and surgeons say no to blood transfusions

  by Mr Negative in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  my mum recently told me that even surgeons won't have blood transfusions, but the common people don't get told this.

  i have also seen or heard others say that a bunch of doctors/health officials/surgeons were asked, at some point, if they would accept a blood transfusion and they all said no.

  is this true?

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  OrphanCrow

  I would like to add to this discussion another doctor quote used by the WTS that I just tracked down.

  In another thread about Russia banning the JWs, I had posted a court transcript from Russia and within that transcript, an expert's opinion on bloodless surgery was used. Mr. Stephen Pollard is a surgeon in the UK. I sent Mr. Pollard an email inquiring about his report and he gave me permission to use his quote. So, here is the email conversation.

  Dear Mr Pollard,

  I am doing research into bloodless medicine and I have discovered that you had the opportunity to prepare a statement for the Russian courts for the Jehovah's Witnesses in support of bloodless medicine. Would you be able to give me some information on that? "British surgeon Professor Stephen Pollard said in his expert opinion prepared for the Golovinsky court: "Everything is becoming more common treatment of patients are not Jehovah's Witnesses (especially doctors), to abstain from blood transfusions based solely on their knowledge of the risks associated with transfusion (consultant surgeon University Hospital St. James, Leeds, United Kingdom)." Thank you

  Mr. Pollard's reply:

  I have been forwarded your e-mail. This statement must have been many years ago and I have no record or recollection of it.

  I can be fairly sure that it would have been prepared at the request of a super chap called Jon Patterson, who was the JW hospital liaison officer at St James's Hospital for many years and with whom I had many dealings is the 1990s, so he might be your best starting point.

  Good luck!

  Steve Pollard

  Me again:

  Dear Mr Pollard,

  Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my inquiry. I hope you don't mind if I ask you one more question? Are you still of the opinion that 'bloodless' surgery is preferable to blood transfusions? And is this method actually becoming more common outside of the JW population, "especially doctors"? Thank you

  Mr. Pollard:

  I am not against blood transfusion but I have always felt that if you avoid a transfusion it is better; in particular if you set out to not lose blood it keeps your surgical skills crisper, the outcomes are better (and cheaper - transfused blood is expensive and the NHS is broke). Also blood availability can be an issue at Christmas and during the summer when people are away.

  I have not really seen any change over the past 20 years to be honest.

  Best wishes,

  Steve

  It seems like the WTS has a habit of taking doctor opinion out of context. When you read the court transcript, it sounds like Mr. Pollard is advocating for abstaining from blood for all patients, including doctors. The quote gives the impression as though "even doctors" are making the choice to abstain from blood. "Abstaining from blood" translates into "NO Blood".

  However, when you read Mr. Pollard's email reply, this is, and was not, his position - avoiding the over-use of blood is far, far, different than 'abstaining from blood'.
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  40

  Revelation, its Grand Climax.... remember when?

  by wallsofjericho in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i remember being at the assembly in 1988?

  when this was released.

  everyone was so excited that we finally had a simple explanation of revelation with pictures.

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  OrphanCrow

  There's a reason the End of the World has always held a place of fascination for people.

  ...and upon the wings of myth, our human story is told...

  On a more practical level, I sometimes wish Hollywood would go all-in and adapt it, just to show how horrible a Revelation -based Apocalypse would actually be.

  That would be spectacular. An cgi version of the book of Revelation.

  I like the book of Ezekiel too. Heavily loaded with visual imagery.

  C.S. Lewis used many images from Ezekiel in parts of The Space Trilogy that he authored.
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  10

  The Jonestown Massacre, Remembered

  by Londo111 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://time.com/3583781/jonestown-massacre/.

  it was 36 years ago today.. the watchtower has caused far more deaths due to the blood transfusion ban and the suicides from disfellowshipping.

  unfortunately, these deaths are mostly invisible to the public, since they didnat occur at once and in one location.. .

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  OrphanCrow

  Good thread, Londo.

  The Watchtower's Death Doctrine has been in place since 1945 - almost 70 years of people being convinced to give their life to the Blood God.

  70 years next year. Maybe we should plan a memorial event of some kind - a day of mourning for all those who have died needlessly over the past 7 decades, all over the world. A day of remembrance on the same day that the Death Doctrine was introduced in the Watchtower.
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  17

  A fascinating invention is being tested here in our little village.

  by Gregor in

  1. social
  2. current

  it is a beautifully simple machine that produces electricity from moving water.. we live on the columbia river 3 miles above the huge bonneville dam hydro-electric installation.. we have an abandoned lock that was built about one hundred years ago to lift river traffic around the rapids formed thousands of years ago when the naturally formed bridge of the gods collapsed.

  the river now flows through it next to thunder island.. recently, an experimental device called the "eco-auger" was lowered into the locks current to begin tests of the beta model.

  it is about the size of a small school bus.

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  OrphanCrow

  I'm on the Coast, so it's all pine trees and beach rock, with some nice sand (white) beaches as well.

  Ah...you must be near Port Dufferin. I have a friend who lives there but I have only been as far as Amherst.

  Okay, so say 'aunt' ... I gotta hear it! :D

  Lol! Yup...did it!

  Not "ant" ...ya gotta get the goose honk in there and down in the throat to really make the honk good...awwnt. :D