Posts by darkspilver

49

"back in the day people didn't know not to abuse kids"- a jw explanation for their abuse scandal

by purrpurr in

a few weeks back i showed the guardian article about the borg refusing to cooperate with the charity commission into child abuse to a fellow jw.

their response was quite amazing.

they told me that in the 50s-80s people didn't know about child abuse, didn't know it was wrong and no one really believed children when they claimed they had been abused - even worldly people.. they said that alot of the time children lie about being abused or therapists plant false memories in their heads and that apostates lie about being abused to undermine our faith.. about the borg not cooperating with the commission they said that it was probably because they wanted to protect the identities of jw's who had been abused.

darkspilver

The OP refers to an article in The Guardian, a liberal British newspaper.

For some background, here's an article from the same newspaper, from 41 years ago....

The Guardian - Tuesday 26 August 1975 - Page 5

Child-lovers win fight for role in Gay Lib
Mr Keith Hose, a paedophile - one who is sexually attracted to children - persuaded tha conference of the Campaign for Homosexual Equality (CHE) yesterday to censure its conference committee for relegating paedophilia to a minor role in the conference business.
Mr Hose told the conference, which ended in Sheffield last night, that he himself had enjoyed "a deep relationship" with two boys aged 11 when he was a sixth-former at school. He is a member of the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE), which is campaigning for the legal and social accepttance of paedophilia. A PIE leaflet states: "We want to dispel the myths connected with paedophilia, and show that most paedophiles desire gentle, loving, and mutually pleasurable relationships. We believe it is inhumane to children to outlaw their sexuality and we support moves to lower the age of consent."
The successful resolution proposed by Mr Hose pointed out that paedophilia was an important subject because "There are many gay paedophiles, in and out of CHE, yet their needs and feelings are ignored in frequent attempts to dissociate them from the gay movement."
[article contnues, see below]

link to scan

For background regarding age of consents etc in the UK see - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_LGBT_history_in_Britain

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/26/lobbying-paedophile-campaign-revealed-hewitt

14

"Marking"

by confused in

please can anyone help me to find any information from society's literature on the subject of marking.

i wasn't aware it was still practiced.

i would like to know how it is explained as being in any way scriptural.

darkspilver

So the elders could well give a talk on the dangers of this.

Which means it's more likely to be handled as a local needs item, rather than a specific 'between-the-eyes' marking talk.

I think it probably boils down to the fact that elders don't like giving specific marking talks and would much prefer to do a general local needs item that addresses the specific perceived 'need' within the item.

14

"Marking"

by confused in

please can anyone help me to find any information from society's literature on the subject of marking.

i wasn't aware it was still practiced.

i would like to know how it is explained as being in any way scriptural.

darkspilver

I think a full-blown proper 'marking' talk is very rare, for a number of reasons...

Firstly, due to the lead time needed in agreeing, organising and actually giving the marking talk, it is often overtaken by events and becomes judicial anyway.

Secondly, rather than a 'marking' talk the issue is addressed by a 'local needs' item.

5

Phillip Di Biase

by darkspilver in

jw
friends

meet the gay hume city council candidate who quit the jehovah’s witness community.

australia victoria's hume city council candidate phillip di biase, 19, grew up in a “highly controlled” jehovah’s witness community, but turned his back on the religion after he came out at 16. now his life is devoted to helping homeless youths.. http://www.starobserver.com.au/news/national-news/victoria-news/meet-gay-hume-city-council-candidate-quit-jehovahs-witness-community/152367.

https://twitter.com/phillipdibias.

darkspilver

Meet the gay Hume City Council candidate who quit the Jehovah’s Witness community

AUSTRALIA Victoria's Hume City Council candidate Phillip Di Biase, 19, grew up in a “highly controlled” Jehovah’s Witness community, but turned his back on the religion after he came out at 16. Now his life is devoted to helping homeless youths.

http://www.starobserver.com.au/news/national-news/victoria-news/meet-gay-hume-city-council-candidate-quit-jehovahs-witness-community/152367

https://twitter.com/phillipdibias

http://www.phillipdi.com

4

Online article, ex JW

by Lostandfound in

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jehovahs-witnesses-religion-christianity-religious-group-what-is-it-like-a7214966.html?cmpid=facebook-post.

not sure if this already posted, article from uk independent online newspaper.

darkspilver

Hi steve2

I wonder what prompted the Independent to run the story

He was probably just browsing Reddit

14

"Marking"

by confused in

please can anyone help me to find any information from society's literature on the subject of marking.

i wasn't aware it was still practiced.

i would like to know how it is explained as being in any way scriptural.

darkspilver

Yes, it is.

2 Thessalonians 3:14 & 15 - "But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked and stop associating with him, so that he may become ashamed. And yet do not consider him an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother."

1999 Watchtower 15 July 1999 pages 29 to 31

Questions From Readers: Is the 'marking' mentioned at 2 Thessalonians 3:14 a formal congregational process, or is it something that Christians individually do in avoiding unruly ones?

scan to link

4

Online article, ex JW

by Lostandfound in

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jehovahs-witnesses-religion-christianity-religious-group-what-is-it-like-a7214966.html?cmpid=facebook-post.

not sure if this already posted, article from uk independent online newspaper.

darkspilver

Seems to be a complete rip-off from the Reddit thread, with nothing added, well apart from a stock image from France (!)

I mean, whatever happened to journalism? Oh yes, of course, the Independent stopped printing five months ago.

But then, as one of the comments says: "it's nice to see the Indy expanding its reporting horizons - from single, anonymous sources on FaceBook and Twitter to single anonymous sources on Reddit too."

49

"back in the day people didn't know not to abuse kids"- a jw explanation for their abuse scandal

by purrpurr in

a few weeks back i showed the guardian article about the borg refusing to cooperate with the charity commission into child abuse to a fellow jw.

their response was quite amazing.

they told me that in the 50s-80s people didn't know about child abuse, didn't know it was wrong and no one really believed children when they claimed they had been abused - even worldly people.. they said that alot of the time children lie about being abused or therapists plant false memories in their heads and that apostates lie about being abused to undermine our faith.. about the borg not cooperating with the commission they said that it was probably because they wanted to protect the identities of jw's who had been abused.

darkspilver

For context, see this interesting item from 'Watching the World' that appeared in the Awake 8 March 1980 page 30 regarding the Episcopal Church under the heading 'Churches Pushing Porn?', second paragraph:

A book titled "The Sex Atlas," produced by an official publishing arm of the Episcopal Church, is being sharply criticized by two Episcopal priests who feel that "it seems to be an apology for any aberrant sexuality." Among other things, they point to passages in the book that seem to minimize child molestation and sex with animals. The book says that molested children may be more "disturbed by adult hysteria about a gentle and friendly 'child molester'" than by the molestation itself. Also, it predicts that in the future "our society will be much less preoccupied with sexual contact between humans and animals. After all, as long as the animal is not hurt or mistreated, there is no need for social interference." Apparently this religious publishing house does not consider God’s opinion on such matters to be relevant. — Ex. 22:19

The text of this book is available online in it's 1983 revised version

http://www.sexarchive.info/GESUND/ARCHIV/ATLAS_EN/atlas.htm

If you can stomach it, it would seem that the relevant sections are 367 to 368 and 466 to 469

FYI the full paragraph that the above 'Watching the World' quote comes from states in the revised 1983 edition:

Studies have shown that by far the greatest majority of convicted child molesters are relatives, neighbors, friends, or acquaintances of their victims. It has also been shown that physical injury occurs only very rarely {in about 2% of the cases). Any potential psychological damage is difficult to assess, and, if it occurs, it may very well be caused more by the reaction of parents and officials than by the sexual act itself. While children understand that coercion, intimidation and physical assault are bad,, they may be puzzled and even seriously disturbed by adult hysteria about a non-violent "child molester." It seems, therefore, that it should make a legal difference whether the children are hurt, forced, threatened, or annoyed, or whether they act as willing participants. If the latter cases are to be prosecuted at all, they should obviously carry much lighter sentences. Indeed, it may very well be unfair to treat them as crimes in the first place, It also seems only realistic to reduce the age of consent at least to the beginning of puberty. For both sexes the age of 14 seems to be the reasonable maximum as in the state of Hawaii and in many European and Asian countries. In many cases even lower age limits may be justified. (Actually, the whole notion of age limits for sexual partners deserves to be questioned. Today many people are arguing with good reason that age alone should not be the basis for making otherwise harmless and legal sexual behavior a crime.)

http://www.sexarchive.info/GESUND/ARCHIV/ATLAS_EN/atlas.htm

Please note that, as with much on the internet, I can not vouch for the accuracy of the text as reproduced at the above website - though I've got not apparent reason to doubt it and it which appears to be run by the author himself - http://www.sexarchive.info

link to scan

49

"back in the day people didn't know not to abuse kids"- a jw explanation for their abuse scandal

by purrpurr in

a few weeks back i showed the guardian article about the borg refusing to cooperate with the charity commission into child abuse to a fellow jw.

their response was quite amazing.

they told me that in the 50s-80s people didn't know about child abuse, didn't know it was wrong and no one really believed children when they claimed they had been abused - even worldly people.. they said that alot of the time children lie about being abused or therapists plant false memories in their heads and that apostates lie about being abused to undermine our faith.. about the borg not cooperating with the commission they said that it was probably because they wanted to protect the identities of jw's who had been abused.

darkspilver

Hi Phizzy!

Nathan Natas has given us a couple of Awake quotes, thanks for those, but I distinctly remember an Awake that dealt directly with Child Abuse in the early 1980's, the time that the JW in the O.P seems to be referring to.

Awake! 22 June 1982 pages 3 to 12

The New Morality - How will it effect them?

Many say that the morality of the Bible is not practical, so they follow what they call “the new morality.” Has it, then, proved to be more practical? or less practical? To find the answer, this series of articles looks at the crop the new morality is harvesting, especially as it relates to children

The New Morality — Harvesting Its Crop

The New Morality - Its effect on children

'Chickens' and 'Hawks' - "Just as it occurred in the days of Lot" Luke 17:28

'Baby Pros' and 'Kiddle Porn' - Pimps and pornographers prey on the young and helpless

Rape at Home - Now even incest clamors for acceptance

To End Child Abuse - The remedy works when practiced, not when preached

Pages 9 and 10 reference the article "Cradle-to-Grave Intimacy" that appeared in Time magazine of September 7, 1981 - interestingly this appears to have been removed without trace from Time magazine's archive: http://content.time.com/time/magazine/0,9263,7601810907,00.html

link to scan