Apostate lies?

by gringojj 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • gringojj

    The jws warn you not to talk to ex-jws. They claim that they spread lies about them. In all of my research on the jws, I have found very few instances where ex-jws have told lies about jws. Of course with firsthand experiences it is almost impossible to verify things, but thats not what I mean. The big stuff, child molestor cover-ups, un scandal, doctrinal flip-flops, false prophecies- this stuff has been verified as truth. These things are not apostate lies. In an earlier post someone whos name I wont say because I dont want them accusing me of stalking them agreed that one should not talk to ex-jws to find out about them.

    I have never been a jw. My wife was raised by jw parents and was studying when we married. I talked to the jws, and I talked to ex-jws. Almost everything I found on the web from apostates and such was true. As a matter of fact the only deception and lies I found were from jws and the wts.

    So my question is what is wrong with going to ex-jws to get info if what they are saying is true?

  • Scully
    what is wrong with going to ex-jws to get info if what they are saying is true

    Apparently, a JW who becomes aware of the information known by ex-JWs, usually becomes an ex-JW themselves.

    The Watchtower hates that.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    Over the time I have been on this site I have repeatedly seen people warn others about rumors. We know the WTS tells the JWs we all lie. We know they tell them that because they used to tell us the same thing.

    We try to be very careful about the information we get and pass on.

    For example the whole issue of the UN and the WTS was extremely well documented. Several people independantly wrote to the UN to confirm the information. In fact the UN got so tired of people calling and writing to get the information they put a notice up on their website with the often requested information.

    But since the WTS continues to tell them we lie they continue to be afraid of what we might tell them. The last thing the WTS wants is to find out that all those so-called lies are really the truth.

  • Mackin

    This was one of the biggest surprises I had when I left the JW's.

    I was stunned to find that the "apostates" were not all vindictive, hateful liars as I had been taught. In fact when I started to read "apostate material" I realised that it told more of the truth than the WT Soc. did. Many of the things I read in Ray Franz's book I knew to be true because I had heard the same stories in Bethel.

    The "apostates turned out to be regular people, and genuinely more friendly and honest that the average JW.

    I can't recall any "apostate stories" about the WT Soc. that have turned out to be lies. I can recall HUNDREDS of JW stories about apostates that really are lies.

  • gringojj

    Any apologists out there?

  • googlemagoogle

    unfortunately some "practising apostates" do focus on really dumb issues, which for a googling JW often seems to support the WTS claim and significantly delays the process of becoming independent or in the worst case even strengthens the believe in the WT again.

    such dumb issues include "sublime imagery" like photoshopped, mirrored, upside-down images that with a lot of fantasy look like a face. i don't know any sane person who would buy into that. or attempts to explain the trinity. you can convert a JW to a born again or whatever (something that almost happened to me) but not by quoting john 1:1.

    i've seen long long refutations of the JW faith, but actually there are a few simple things that are needed. the UN-scandal for some (for me this was a non-issue though). the 607/1914 chronology (this was one of my biggest topics). organizational problems. obvious misinterpretations of the bible. or biblical errors.

    it's much better to have a small list of well founded arguments than a long list with a few or even one single dumb argument. the JW will only remember the dumb argument.

  • gringojj

    Thanks google good example.

  • DannyHaszard

    The 'poisoning the well' argument that the watchtower uses regarding apostate 'poison' is that if you wanted to learn about the catholic religion would you listen to an ex-catholic?

    Yes i would,and if i was considering investing my entire family's life savings in Enron corporation (before their collapse) and i knew a lifelong disgruntled ex-employee who had damaging data on them i damn sure would be all ears.

    A B C A.The central core JW doctrine is Jesus second coming in 1914, is a LIE! B.Every devout JW will grow old and die just like me. C.Apostate opposer's like myself will not die at Armageddon Regarding apostate "half-truths"-Does this mean that one half of all apostate information IS true?Moreover,does this also mean that only one half of Jesus returned to power (had his invisible second coming) in 1914? Perplexing indeed.... I have found that 80% of the rabid rebuttals i get from my thousands of web postings everywhere are apologist who LIE and deny that they are Jehovah's Witnesses . Nobody frigging lies like active dubs. The Bogeyman

  • vitty

    Google, I couldnt agree more.

    gingojj, In fact this is a really important question. When I was a active witness, I didnt even "think" about what they could be lying about. So the next time my family mention apostates, Im going to ask them "What lies do you think they say about JWs " and see what they say, could be interesting .

  • Ingenuous
    what is wrong with going to ex-jws to get info if what they are saying is true?

    Similar to what google said earlier, JWs don't know the issues. But whether they know or not isn't relevant to their stance. They believe whatever the Org says. When I was "in", the "Why would you ask someone to tell you about me when you could ask me?" argument made sense because I didn't believe anyone who was "against" Witnesses could possibly tell the truth. I was offended a couple years ago when a workmate of mine decided to explore info on JWs via the 'net and didn't come to me. I now realize that, just like other JWs, I thought I was being eminently reasonable so I couldn't hear how dogmatic and unreasonable I actually sounded. Add to that the conviction that those who were DA'd or DF'd were already mislead by Satan (Why else would they have "left" the "truth"?), and you soon realize JWs don't allow any contradictory arguments proposed by a non-JW to get a foothold in their minds long enough to give them a fair shake.

    It just occurred to me that it's quite a contradiction to say that a non-JW doesn't know the "truth" about JWs. If the "world-wide work" was doing what it was supposed to, shouldn't just about everyone know the "truth" about them?

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