Why naturalism is irrational

by Shining One 369 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  OldSoul

  You start with a premise that is entirely undemonstrable

  To be fair, Terry, I have stated repeatedly in many threads since starting to post here that my premise is not demonstrable and cannot possibly be proven to someone else by me. You are seeming to imply a bit of dishonesty on my part in my presentation, but none is intended and, as far as I know, none is present. Perhaps you were reading into what I wrote an expectation of my beliefs that I did not state.

  I have also stated that the Scientific Method can never be used to prove the existence of God, without first being able to examine God through some sort of physical construct. I do not believe that is possible.

  You proceed to use metaphorical illusions (by contorting the abstract nature of language) to support the non-argument

  To support a logical consequence of any limitation of perspective. That allegory is equally applicable to those who only want to see the mystical in the world, those who only want to read certain organization's publications, etc. It is a very utile allegory for demonstrating the effect of limited perspective.

  You take the metaphorical results of the non-argument and use it to disqualify the only reality that exists

  You:

  1) Presuppose that the physical reality is the only reality that exists,

  2) Build a framework of reference to it that only allows exploration of physical reality (Scientific Method),

  3) Insist that all demonstrable reality be demonstrated by the rules of examination of the physical reality,

  4) Observe that nothing beyond the physical can be demonstrated to exist by use of the Scientific Method (see #1 and #2)

  5) Deny the existence of anything beyond physical reality because of the lack of demonstration

  If you can't see a glaring logical flaw in that, you are less intelligent than I thought. Your denial of existence of anything beyond physical reality is not based on anything other than the limitation of the method used, it can only examine physical reality.

  I agree that physical reality exists. I also know that there is reality beyond the scope of the Scientific Method. Prove the existence of respect, scientifically, if you can.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul
• 

  Terry

  I agree that physical reality exists. I also know that there is reality beyond the scope of the Scientific Method. Prove the existence of respect, scientifically, if you can.

  
  

  
  
  Why do you use the word "know"? You don't.
  

  
  
  The existence of respect?
  

  
  
  Let me take the trouble of demonstrating to you what your problem really is, if I may, please.
  

  
  
  The word __existence__as it is used in your sentence does not function as anything other than a metaphor (just as I mentioned in my previous post.)
  

  
  
  "Respect" is a conceptual designation and not an entity. The same is true for "Love" or "Courage" etc. They are not entities and do not exist. But, metaphorically they "exist" as manifestations of human emotions which can be observed under certain conditions of attitude.
  

  
  
  If you do not see the difference in the use of the word:exist and "exist" you can't overcome this obstacle to understanding.
  

  
  
  Your entire premise is not something you know.
  

  
  
  Your foundational premise is something you assert you "know" and it is all metaphorical by virtue of the fact it is undemonstrable other than as an exercise in metaphorical abstraction.
  

  
  
  T.
• 

  Terry

  He's nailed your feet to the floor, with that one, Terry

  
  

  
  How lucid of you, Little Toe. I'm a goner, for sure. Metaphorical nails in actual feet, no doubt!

  T.
• 

  LittleToe

  Which is the more important to us - the actuality of existence of the realization of it?
• 

  SixofNine

  I know that Old Soul's know was metaphorical because it was italicized; y'know? Well, it's strong evidence anyway, er... unless he thinks differently than me, lol.
• 

  Terry

  Which is the more important to us - the actuality of existence of the realization of it?

  Which is the more important to us-the actuality of a glass of water or the drinking of it?

  T.
• 

  LittleToe

  You're side-stepping - dosy-do...
• 

  Terry

  You're side-stepping - dosy-do...

  You mean, because you don't comprehend the frailty of a metaphorical premise and I point it out?

  When one sees poop on the ground, one is not obliged to step in it, is one? Hence: side-step can purify the sole

  T.
• 

  LittleToe

  But, even though you didn't realise it, the actuality was that your feet were nailed to the floor - I'm just attempting to help you avoid falling flat on your face in that poop that you previously so narrowly avoided
• 

  Terry

  I know that Old Soul's know was metaphorical because it was italicized

  Yes, everything asserted by Old Soul should be Italicized!

  T.