Is Michael the Archangel really Jesus?

by twinkletoes 84 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Hellrider

  Just a couple of things, and some questions: I agree with Leolaia that the etymology of the word doesn`t imply uniqueness. But still: If Michael is the only angel mentioned in the bible with the title "archangel", could this mean that he is "the" archangel, that he is higher than the others? Forgive me if this is a stupid question, I`m just trying to learn. I know Gabriel is mentioned too, but is he mentioned with the title "archangel"? Even though jewish tradition at this time has several archangels, this doesn`t exclude one of them from being higher than the others? Or does it? (side note: I find it strange that IF Michael is "the word" that brings everything into existence, after himself being created by the supreme God, then WHY doesn`t the Bible make this clearer? Why did they have to write everything in such a concealing manner?)

  Do other (non-biblical and apocryphic) sources mention any kind of hierarchy of the archangels? Are any of them "higher" than the others? Because if Michael is mentioned as a "supreme" archangel, then the WTs stand could still be valid. And, from a JW-viewpoint...(god, can`t believe I`m making myself utter that sentence): Even IF there is no hierarchy between the archangels in other, non-biblical sources from this era, that fact that the Bible mentions him (solely), and in the context of Christs return (trumpets and the sound of an archangel bla bla bla) - would indicate that he IS Michael...Or?
• 

  Cygnus

  Hellrider, I'm afraid you'd probably have to go back in time 1950-2200 years ago, learn Greek and Aramaic, and ask around to get concrete answers to your inquiries.
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  Narkissos

  Hellrider

  Within the Protestant (or JW, for that matter) canon the first mention (invention?) of "Michael" is found in Daniel which calls him "one of the chief princes" (10:13). He is one in a group, but this is not necessarily the group of "archangels". In context, Michael is to Israel what the "prince of the kingdom of Persia" is to Persia or the "prince of Greece" to "Greece" (v. 20) -- it is "your prince" (v. 21), " the great prince, the protector of your people" (12:1).

  A group of "seven angels who stand before the Lord of glory," including Raphael, is mentioned in Tobit 12:15 -- a deuterocanonical book in the Catholic Bible. This is where the idea of "archangels" first surfaces. In apocalyptic tradition it also includes the "biblical" angels Gabriel (Daniel 8:16; 9:21; Luke 1:19) and Michael (Daniel + Jude 9). It is interesting that the tradition of the "seven angels" is echoed in Revelation (8:2), which also mentions Michael.

  Of course the primary source for "the archangel Michael" in Jude (9) is 1 Enoch, which Jude explicitly quotes (v. 14f). In 1 Enoch Michael is "one of the archangels" (70:4), whose number and names may vary (they are four in 9:1, just as in the Qumran War Scroll). There is the following list in chapter 20 which seems to ascribe no superiority among his peers:

  1 These are the names of the angels who watch.

  2 Uriel, one of the holy angels, who presides over clamor and terror.

  3 Raphael, one of the holy angels, who presides over the spirits of men.

  4 Raguel, one of the holy angels, who inflicts punishment on the world and the luminaries.

  5 Michael, one of the holy angels, who, presiding over human virtue, commands the nations.

  6 Sarakiel, one of the holy angels, who presides over the spirits of the children of men that transgress.

  7 Gabriel, one of the holy angels, who presides over Ikisat, (31) over paradise, and over the cherubim.

  (A seventh archangel, Remiel, appears here in a 9th-century ms.)
• 

  ithinkisee

  What about Michael the Archangel not rebuking the devil? In Jude 9; it was not his place to rebukee the Devil

  (Jude 9) 9 But when Mi´cha·el the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: “May Jehovah rebuke you.”. . .

  But Jesus rebuked the Devil in Matt 4:8-10.

  (Matthew 4:8-10) 8 Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, 9 and he said to him: “All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.” 10 Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”. . .

  Has the Society ever addressed this seeming discrepancy?

  -ithinkisee
• 

  JosephMalik

  I find it strange that IF Michael is "the word" that brings everything into existence, after himself being created by the supreme God, then WHY doesn`t the Bible make this clearer? Hellrider, Because it is not true. What was made clear by John is that the world, the world of mankind in all its complexity was brought into existence by the Word. How the Word or any other such non-human Being came into existence is not our concern and is not discussed in the texts. The word “all” or “all things” does not mean everything. See what is being discussed. No planets, no stars, no universe, no nothing like that. Just the world of mankind his own home. John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Life, that is what John is talking about. John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. Human beings "all" of them. You know Paul taught the same thing in Col 1:16 but words such as heaven and invisible trip most up. Joseph
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  Leolaia

  Narkissos....Nickelsburg by the way regards 1 Enoch 20:8 as original to the Book of Watchers on the basis of internal evidence, particularly by the witness of ch. 81 which is believed to have been misplaced from the Book of Watchers (the section of ch. 20-33) and embedded within the Book of Luminaries.

  Hellrider....It is just purely an accident that Michael is the only named archangel in the NT (other Jewish and Christian books, not included in the NT, refer to "Jeremiel the archangel" and so forth). The only other named angel is Gabriel, who happens to not otherwise be described in Luke 1-2. The allusion in Jude 9 is to the testamentary tradition (most likely to the Testament of Moses), where Michael is usually the angel that handles the burial of faithful patriarchs and protects their souls as they ascend to heaven:

  "Michael the archangel stood beside him with multitudes of angels, and they bore his precious soul in their hands in divinely woven linen. And they tended to the body of the righeous Abraham with divine ointments and perfumes until the third day after his death and they buried him in the promised land at the oak of Mamre, while the angels escorted his precious soul and ascended into heaven" (Testament of Abraham 20:1-12)

  "The Lord came down with the angels Michael and Gabriel to bear Jacob's soul to heaven" (Testament of Jacob 5:13).

  "Then Seth saw the extended hand of the Lord holding Adam, and he handed him over to Michael saying, 'Let him be in your custody until the day of dispensing punishment at the last years, when I will turn his sorrow into joy. Then he shall sit on the throne of him who overthrew him.' And again the Lord said to the angels Michael and Uriel, 'Bring me three linen clothes and spread them out over Adam, and other cloths over his son Abel, and bury Adam and his son.' " (Vita of Adam and Eve 47-48).

  "He lay there three hours and so the Lord of all, sitting on his holy throne, stretched out his hands and took Adam and handed him over to the archangel Michael, saying to him, 'Take him up into Paradise, to the third heaven, and leave him there until that great and fearful day.' " (Apocalypse of Moses 37:4-5).

  "It is said that Michael the archangel served the burial of Moses. For the Devil would not accept this, but brought an accusation because of the murder of the Egyptian, on the grounds that Moses, was guilty of it, and because of this would not allow him to receive honorable burial" (Pseudo-Oecumenius, In. Jud. 9).

  This role is so common for Michael that he even appears in some sources as doing the same thing to Jesus himself. The Ascension of Isaiah (early second century?) states: "The angel of the Holy Spirit and Michael, the chief of the holy angels, will open his grave on the third day and the Beloved, sitting on their shoulders, will come forth and send out his twelve disciples" (3:15-17). A similar tradition that Jesus was escorted by angels in his resurrection appears in the Codex Bobiensis and the Gospel of Peter 10:39-40 which depicts Jesus emerging from the tomb with two unnamed heavenly men. Also Michael escorted Enoch in his final journey to heaven in the "Book of Parables": "After that my spirit was taken away, and it ascended to heaven... and the angel Michael, one of the archangels, took me by my right hand and raised me up and he brought me out to all the secrets ... and he showed me all the secrets of the ends of heaven and all the treasuries of the stars ... and he took my spirit -- even me, Enoch -- to the heaven of heavens" (71:1-5).
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  Hellrider

  Thank you, Narkissos, I think that makes it clearer, especially when taken into consideration Leolaias comments about Thessalonians "The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet". The "archangels voice" isn`t necessarily attributed to Christ, and the archangel isn`t even necessarily Michael. Especially since Michael isn`t even the archangel of war and punishment, that would probably be Uriel or Raguel instead.

  JosephMalik, I don`t understand that at all. I understand that the Word created the world of mankind, not necessarily all the other things. I also understand that men (like the prophets, and men like that) will turn into angels/heavenly beings, and rule over the angels. But: Jesus is not one of these, is he? The Bible says he was sent to mankind, from his Father in heaven. He was originally a heavenly being, but then became man, then a heavenly being again. And if you claim that Michael isn`t the word, then this being that was sent to earth, wouldn`t be "His only begotten Son", that is, the first being God created, would it?

  1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God. 1:2 The Word was with God in the beginning. 1:3 All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created

  My point is: IF Jesus is "the only begotten son", then he would be the first being that God created, wouldn`t he? And if the Word was the first thing God created (this verse would indicate that it was), and the Word created everything else (all "things"...wouldn`t that include stars, planets etc, things that when this was written, only were tiny "things" in the sky in the night anyway), then...Michael + Jesus + the Word...=true. Or??????

  (I thought I was getting it, until your last post. NOW I`m more confused than ever)
• 

  LittleToe

  I'm of the opinion that Jesus is not Michael.

  There's plenty of evidence on this thread and others. I like the potential corrulation of the seven archangels with the seven trumpeters of Revelation. It makes even more sense of the accompanying "trumpet of God" occuring at the time of the "Archangels's call", as I have serious doubts that any bible-book writer was intentionally trying to insert ambiguity into their respective texts.
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  Hellrider

  LittleToe, I agree with you, my last post was just "in case" Jesus was Michael. I don`t think he was either. But if he was, I can`t see that he could be, without also being the Word (that Michael would also have to be the Word - Jesus, Michael and the word would have to be the same being). "And He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation." (Colossians 1:15)
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  RevFrank

  Funny thing here..if Michael is or was suppose to be Jesus..what comes next when the Watchtower says Jesus is, also, Abaddon, the angel of the Abyss