by orangefatcat 24 Replies latest jw friends

  • MerryMagdalene

    ROFLMAO @ the very clever Kitten (who only shows one symptom of SH so far...but we're keeping her under observation)


  • dedpoet

    (1) Cleverness (2) Lack of love (3) Prideful intelligence (4) Dishonesty in various forms...........sounds like the body of elders where I used to go

  • Ingenuous

    I've been reading C. T. Russell's works. While he was far (far!) from perfect, one positive characteristic he did have was that he didn't use the term "apostates" the way JWs do. He didn't slap the label on those who disagreed with him or who didn't want to become Bible Students. I would take his words at face value, not as code for "anyone and everyone who disagrees with us."

    In the interests of keeping myself honest, I looked up the magazine in question. The first quote in the OP came from an article dealing with those who opposed the Society, not by simply disagreeing, but by using specific underhanded and dishonest means of doing so. [http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbv5/r4482.htm] Specifically, violent disagreements were erupting over the identity of "that servant" in Matt. 24:45. (Interestingly, nowhere in the article is it suggested that this be identified as Russell.) Concerning those who disagreed, the article states:

    From the first we have urged that this subject be not allowed to produce contention or bitterness of spirit. Let each reach his own conclusions and act accordingly. If some think that they can get as good or better provender at other tables, or that they can produce as good or better themselves--let these take their course. All who feel dissatisfied with the spiritual food which our great Master has privileged us to send broadcast to every nation should certainly be looking anywhere and everywhere for something better. Our wish for them is that they might find something better. If we were dissatisfied ourselves, or if we knew where something better could be obtained, we certainly at any cost would seek it. And how could we find fault with others for doing what we ourselves would do? Rather let us bid them God-speed in their search for something more satisfactory.

    While clearly believing the Society was publishing "spiritual food", they didn't insult the intelligence of those who felt they needed to look elsewhere via an ad hominem attack. The article doesn't even label those who disagree and leave "opposers."

    It isn't until nastiness rears its head that the description of some as "opposers" is employed. The vitriol and unreasonableness perceived in the actions of such ones is likened to the madness of rabies. The full paragraph containing the first quote reads:

    But while we are willing that others should go anywhere and everywhere to find food and light to their satisfaction, strange to say, those who become our opponents take a very different course. Instead of saying in the manly fashion of the world, "I have found something which I prefer; goodbye!" these manifest anger, malice, hatred, strife, "works of the flesh and of the devil" such as we have never known worldly people to exhibit. They seem inoculated with madness, Satanic hydrophobia. Some of them smite us and then claim that we did the smiting. They are ready to say and write contemptible falsities and to stoop to do meanness.
    The word "apostate(s)" doesn't appear in this article. Actually, it doesn't appear anywhere in the Oct. 1, 1909 magazine, so I'm unsure of the source for the second quote.
  • rebel8

    I don't know what you are all talking about!!!!

    Of COURSE we all have rabies! We get it from the demonized bats!

    (wipes foam from mouth)

  • NeonMadman
    I also froth at the mouth occasionally.

    I must not be apostate enough, I only drool sometimes.

  • inquirer

    I remember this form a video game called Monkey Island (awesome game!) you read a gravestone (I think) and it says "Kiss me. I've got scurvy!" :D

    What a stupid thing to say! Apparently there are a higher percentage of Witnesses that suffer from mental illness that "worldly people." I don't want to lash out at them, because I want to be BETTER THAN THEM. I stopped being a Jehovah's Witness and became Christian. :)

    BTW I still am a Jehovah's witness (lower case "w") But not a Jehovah's Witness with a capital "W" for Witness!!!(but it must be lower case -- it's a bit like The Church, or Church, Catholic or Christian... you know what I mean.) but I am a Jesus' witness too , notice the lower case "w." Because I think there are people who call themselves Jesus' Witnesses with a capital W -- I am not one of those either!

    Sorry to get down to technicallities. If you don't understand me, just message me or reply on my thread.

    ...But I am a Christian -- no label... like in the good old days of Christ! :D Read http://www.bible.ca -- which talks about Christianity without a label! Really well written, even though it's trinitarian! :) Goodness! I wish I could find the link for it.... But it's on there somewhere.

  • inquirer

    That is the site I was referring too.

  • Mary
    They seem inoculated with madness, Satanic hydrophobia [rabies].

    Geeze, I thought I got de rabies from the pus-filled vaccination that are being given away free of charge at Satan's heaquarters. Thanks for clearin' that up Brooklyn.

  • orangefatcat


    The words I quoted from is a WT of 1994 7/! 11-12

    At Which Table Are You Feeding?

    "You cannot be partaking of ‘the table of Jehovah’ and the table of demons."—1 CORINTHIANS 10:21.

    THESE inspired words of the apostle Paul show that two figurative tables are set before mankind. Each table is identified by the kind of symbolic food placed upon it, and all of us are eating at one or the other. However, if we wish to please God, we cannot be feeding at his table and at the same time be nibbling at the table of demons. The apostle Paul warned: "The things which the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons, and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons. You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of ‘the table of Jehovah’ and the table of demons."—1 Corinthians 10:20, 21.


    Paul’s words remind us of the communion sacrifices that the ancient Israelites offered under Jehovah’s Law. The altar of God was called a table, and the one bringing the animal to be sacrificed was said to have communion with Jehovah and with the priests. How? First, Jehovah shared in the sacrifice because the blood was sprinkled upon his altar and the fat was consumed by flames underneath. Second, the priest shared in that he (and his family) ate the roasted breast and right leg of the animal sacrificed. And third, the offerer shared by eating the rest of it. (Leviticus 7:11-36) Today, partaking of the table of Jehovah means that we give him the kind of worship that he requires, as exemplified by Jesus and his apostles. To do this, we must feed spiritually on what Jehovah provides through his Word and organization. The Israelites, who enjoyed special communion with Jehovah at his table, were forbidden to offer sacrifices to demons at their table. Spiritual Israelites and their "other sheep" companions are under the same divine prohibition.—John 10:16.


    How could one become guilty of partaking of the table of demons in our day? By serving the interests of anything opposed to Jehovah. The table of demons includes all demonic propaganda, which is designed to mislead and to turn us away from Jehovah. Who would want to feed his heart and mind on such poison? True Christians refuse to share in the sacrifices that most people today offer to the gods of war and riches.—Matthew 6:24.


    "the Table of Demons"


    The question all of us face is, At which table am I feeding? We cannot escape the fact that we are obliged to eat at one table or the other. (Compare Matthew 12:30.) We would not knowingly want to be partaking of the table of demons. To do that would cost us the favor of the only true and living God, Jehovah. On the other hand, to partake of food only at Jehovah’s table leads to our everlasting life in happiness! (John 17:3) There is a saying that a person is what he eats. Anyone, then, who wants to keep in good physical and mental health has to watch his diet. Just as high-fat junk food, though tastily prepared with chemical additives, does not contribute to our continued physical health, so the propaganda of this world laced with demonic ideas is bad figurative junk food that will corrupt our minds.


    The apostle Paul foretold that during the last days, people would be led astray by the "teachings of demons." (1 Timothy 4:1) Not only are such demonic teachings found in false religious beliefs but they are also widely promulgated in other ways. For example, we need to analyze and weigh what books and magazines we and our children read, what television programs we view, and what plays and films we watch. (Proverbs 14:15) If for recreation we read fiction, does it feature senseless violence, illicit sex, or occult practices? If we read nonfiction in order to be instructed, does it expound a philosophy or way of life "not according to Christ"? (Colossians 2:8) Are empty speculations presented, or is involvement in worldly social movements advocated? Does it foster the determination to get very rich? (1 Timothy 6:9) Is it a publication that subtly presents divisive teachings that are un-Christlike? If the answer is yes and we continue to read or view such material, we risk feeding at the table of demons. Today, there are hundreds of thousands of publications that promote worldly philosophies that seem so enlightened and current. (Ecclesiastes 12:12) But none of this propaganda is really new; nor does it work for one’s benefit and betterment, any more than what Satan cunningly said to Eve worked for her betterment.—2 Corinthians 11:3.


    Therefore, when Satan invites us to taste his demonic junk food, how should we respond? As Jesus did when he was tempted by Satan to turn stones into bread. Jesus replied: "It is written, ‘Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every utterance coming forth through Jehovah’s mouth.’" And when the Devil offered Jesus "all the kingdoms of the world and their glory" if he would fall down and do an act of worship to Satan, Jesus responded: "Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’"—Matthew 4:3, 4, 8-10.


    Jehovah’s table and the table spread by his demonic enemies can never be reconciled! Oh, yes, it has been tried before. Recall the ancient Israelites in the days of the prophet Elijah. The people claimed to worship Jehovah, but they believed that other gods, such as Baal, promised prosperity. Elijah approached the people and said: "How long will you be limping upon two different opinions? If Jehovah is the true God, go following him; but if Baal is, go following him." Undeniably, the Israelites were hobbling "first on one leg then on the other." (1 Kings 18:21; The Jerusalem Bible) Elijah challenged the priests of Baal to prove the godship of their deity. The God that could bring fire down from heaven upon a sacrifice would prove to be the true God. Despite much effort, the priests of Baal failed. Then Elijah simply prayed: "O Jehovah, answer me, that this people may know that you, Jehovah, are the true God." Immediately fire from Jehovah shot down from heaven and consumed the water-drenched animal sacrifice. Stirred by the convincing demonstration of Jehovah’s godship, the people obeyed Elijah and put all 450 prophets of Baal to death. (1 Kings 18:24-40) So today, we must recognize Jehovah as the true God and decisively turn to feeding only at his table if we have not already done so.


    Faithful Slave’ Serves Jehovah’s Table


    The Lord Jesus Christ foretold that during his presence a "faithful and discreet slave" would provide spiritual food for his disciples: "Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings." (Matthew 24:45-47) This slave has proved to be, not any single individual, but the class of dedicated, anointed Christians. This class has put upon Jehovah’s table the finest spiritual food for both the anointed remnant and the "great crowd." Now over four million strong, the great crowd have taken their stand with the anointed remnant for the universal sovereignty of Jehovah God and for his Kingdom by which he will sanctify his holy name.—Revelation 7:9-17.


    This faithful slave class has been using the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society to provide spiritual nourishment for all of Jehovah’s Witnesses. While Christendom and the rest of this system of things are starving for the lack of life-giving spiritual food, Jehovah’s people are feasting. (Amos 8:11) This is in fulfillment of the prophecy at Isaiah 25:6: "Jehovah of armies will certainly make for all the peoples, in this mountain, a banquet of well-oiled dishes, a banquet of wine kept on the dregs, of well-oiled dishes filled with marrow, of wine kept on the dregs, filtered." As verses 7 and 8 show, this feast will continue everlastingly. What a blessing it is for all in Jehovah’s visible organization now, and what a blessing it will continue to be in the future!


    of the Poisonous Food on the Table of Demons


    Food on the table of demons is poisonous. Consider, for example, the food dispensed by the evil slave class and the apostates. It does not nourish or build up; it is not wholesome. It cannot be, for the apostates have stopped feeding at Jehovah’s table. As a result, whatever they had developed of the new personality is gone. What motivates them is, not holy spirit, but vitriolic bitterness. They are obsessed with only one aim—beating their former fellow slaves, as Jesus foretold.—Matthew 24:48, 49.


    For example, away back in 1909, the then president of the Watch Tower Society, C. T. Russell, wrote about those who turned away from Jehovah’s table and then began to mistreat their former fellow slaves. The Watch Tower of October 1, 1909, said: "All who cut loose from the Society and its work, instead of prospering themselves or upbuilding others in the faith and in the graces of the spirit, seemingly do the reverse—attempt injury to the Cause they once served, and, with more or less noise, gradually sink into oblivion, harming only themselves and others possessed of a similarly contentious spirit. . . . If some think that they can get as good or better provender at other tables, or that they can produce as good or better themselves—let these take their course. . . . But while we are willing that others should go anywhere and everywhere to find food and light to their satisfaction, strange to say, those who become our opponents take a very different course. Instead of saying in the manly fashion of the world, ‘I have found something which I prefer; goodbye!’ these manifest anger, malice, hatred, strife, ‘works of the flesh and of the devil’ such as we have never known worldly people to exhibit. They seem inoculated with madness, Satanic hydrophobia [rabies]. Some of them smite us and then claim that we did the smiting. They are ready to say and write contemptible falsities and to stoop to do meanness."


    Yes, apostates publish literature that resorts to distortions, half-truths, and outright falsehood. They even picket Witness conventions, trying to trap the unwary. Hence, it would be a dangerous thing to allow our curiosity to move us to feed on such writings or to listen to their abusive speech! While we might not think it a risk for us personally, the hazard remains. Why? For one thing, some of the apostate literature presents falsehoods by means of "smooth talk" and "counterfeit words." (Romans 16:17, 18; 2 Peter 2:3) What would you expect from the table of demons? And while the apostates may also present certain facts, these are usually taken out of context with the goal of drawing others away from the table of Jehovah. All their writings simply criticize and tear down! Nothing is upbuilding.


    Jesus said: "By their fruits you will recognize them." (Matthew 7:16) What, now, are the fruits of the apostates and their publications? Four things mark their propaganda. (1) Cleverness. Ephesians 4:14 says that they are "cunning in contriving error." (2) Prideful intelligence. (3) Lack of love. (4) Dishonesty in various forms. These are the very ingredients of the food that is on the table of demons, all of which is designed to undermine the faith of Jehovah’s people.


    And there is another aspect. To what have the apostates returned? In many cases, they have reentered the darkness of Christendom and its doctrines, such as the belief that all Christians go to heaven. Moreover, most no longer take a firm Scriptural stand regarding blood, neutrality, and the need to witness about God’s Kingdom. We, though, have escaped the darkness of Babylon the Great, and we never want to return to it. (Revelation 18:2, 4) As loyal servants of Jehovah, why would we even want to peek at the propaganda put out by these rejecters of Jehovah’s table who now verbally beat those who are helping us take in "healthful words"?—2 Timothy 1:13.


    Some may be inquisitive about accusations that the apostates make. But we should take to heart the principle at Deuteronomy 12:30, 31. Here Jehovah through Moses warned the Israelites about what to avoid once they dispossessed the pagan inhabitants of the Promised Land. "Watch out for yourself for fear you may be entrapped after them, after they have been annihilated from before you, and for fear you may inquire respecting their gods, saying, ‘How was it these nations used to serve their gods? And I, yes, I, will do the same way.’ You must not do that way to Jehovah your God." Yes, Jehovah God knows how human curiosity works. Remember Eve, and also Lot’s wife! (Luke 17:32; 1 Timothy 2:14) Let us never give ear to what the apostates are saying or doing. Rather, let us be busy building people up and loyally feeding at the table of Jehovah!


    Jehovah’s Table Will Remain


    Shortly, the great tribulation will suddenly break out, moving quickly to a climax in "the war of the great day of God the Almighty." (Revelation 16:14, 16) It will reach a crescendo as Jehovah destroys this system of things and the figurative table at which the world’s nations have been feeding. Jehovah will also overthrow the entire invisible organization of Satan the Devil with its hordes of demons. Those who have continued to feed at Satan’s spiritual table, the table of demons, will be forced to attend a literal meal, no, not as partakers, but as the main course—to their destruction!—See Ezekiel 39:4; Revelation 19:17, 18.


    Only Jehovah’s table will remain. Those who are appreciatively feeding at it will be preserved and will be privileged to eat there for all time to come. Never again will food shortages of any kind threaten them. (Psalm 67:6; 72:16) In perfect health they will serve Jehovah God in Paradise! At last the stirring words of Revelation 21:4 will be magnificently fulfilled: "He will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away." With opposition a thing of the past, Jehovah God’s universal sovereignty will obtain everywhere forever and ever as endless divine favor pours upon redeemed mankind occupying the Paradise earth. To gain this reward, let all of us be determined to partake exclusively of Jehovah’s table, which is brimming with the best of spiritual food!

    May I ask you how you found a copy of the WT of 1909?


  • orangefatcat

    I just read Inquier the words you mentioned about being a Jw.and not a JW. whatever, here is what you say in your profile,

    Just want to ask some serious questions about "behind the scenes" activities. I still believe in most JW theology. ***I must point out, I don't like what JW's have done to people's lifes but I see it as being just one of the many supressive religions out there. My feelings and opinions are similar to Ray Franz' book Crisis of Conscience. Where as I don't want to hate, but I want my Christian freedom and not worrying about how many hours of field service I do or whether I should/shouldn't be attending church? I want my freedom man!*** ****Update. Now I don't believe in Jerusalem being destroyed in 607 BCE anymore.****

    I also wish to say, I am not one to make up my own words when it comes to the literature from the WTS. I quote exactly what was in the magazines or literature. Orangefatcat.

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