ITHINKISEE Update: Some more conversation (and a new update from original)

by ithinkisee 37 Replies latest members private

• 

  cruzanheart

  Your wife is smarter than I was! It took me 15 years AFTER my husband left for me to leave. When the kids and I finally left, Chris was working nights so the kids and I would read a chapter from the Bible at night. We started with Matthew, and we used a side-by-side 8 translation Bible that Chris found -- it was most revealing! The vernacular of The Message next to the King James Version was kind of an interesting comparison and it gave us a different viewpoint of familiar scriptures.

  What became very clear was how simple Jesus' message is: love God, love your neighbor. That's it. That's all it takes to be approved by God (whatever his/her/it's name is) and keep a person a functioning member of human society. It was a beautiful revelation. Nothing else really mattered after that, and the rest of the NT began to look like a bunch of guys trying to start a religion and imposing THEIR rules but claiming it had to be from God.

  Try to make your wife see that you are not leaving God (Jehovah, in her mind) at all -- you are merely stepping back from a group of imperfect men who got it wrong. If the original Christian church, started by men who actually KNEW Jesus personally, could degenerate into a bunch of sects, then why can't Jehovah's Witnesses also be guilty of apostacy? What makes them so special? Hey, I could call myself the Queen of England, but that wouldn't make it so!

  Moving will be a very graceful way to fade. You might even consider having the elders send your publisher record cards to the wrong congregation in the new place (oops!). If they're anything like the ones in my area, that should earn you maybe one visit every couple of years -- if they remember.

  Nina
• 

  TheListener

  About a year ago I bought two books by Robert Banks on early christain worship. They're pretty good. Are they perfect? No. But, they really open up a discussion how the early christians may have worshipped according to biblical and historical sources versus how we as dubs worship.

  Also, I've found that for every step or two forward there is a step or two backward. I truly believe that the conscience of the believer bothers them each time the make a stride. Try not to be angry, irritated or feel that nothing is happening when this occurs. It's hard, everytime they say, "well let's get ready for the meeting, you know how important they are", it's easy to get pissed. But, being loving and supportive through the ups and downs will get you further. You've done a great job so far.

  Perhaps, depending on the specifics of your previous conversations, you could tell her that even though you're unsure about the organization and its authority, you still want to be spiritually involved with the family and would welcome spiritual and scriptural discussions with her and the kids as long as it wasn't specific to organizational policies. You've sort of done this already.

  Have you broached paradise? With my wife it all comes down to paradise. How can you live forever in paradise if you aren't a loyal dub? You can't - you idiot! That's the logic I hear. Basically it's "don't you believe in paradise anymore? Even though these things you're saying are true, they are imperfect men and I really do need to have faith in Jehovah. The Israelites didn't always understand Jehovah's laws and the apostles misunderstood things, why should we be any better?" That is the core argument for any dub (in my opinion). Once they've retreated to that point (or because the GB says so) you have hit the final arguments. There are some good threads on each of these subjects but I would really recommend that you be ready to discuss these points. Breaking the authority of the GB is essential, it is the driver behind all the fallacious logic.

  You're doing great and you know you're an inspiration to myself and many others. Keep it up and let us know how we can help.

  Good luck man.
• 

  ithinkisee

  UPDATE:

  Wife just called.

  We talked about some positive North Carolina news that came through - regarding our possible move there.

  Then she said, "I feel so much better today. Especially after praying and stuff."

  I said that was great.

  She said she isn't mad at me at all and is glad that we have been talking so much. She says she believes there are likely some very serious problems with the Organization but she is not ready to make a decision that she is not going to go to meetings ever again. I said I didn't expect her to, and that it took me almost a year to get to this point where I feel confident about what I believe.

  She said she is not going to be mad at me if I don't get 10 hrs of service per month and make it to every meeting. She is just happy that I still believe the Bible and that we pray together, and if we do, that Jehovah will guide us in the direction we need to go.

  I told her I am even willing to go to the meetings "fairly" regularly and other things to not make waves for her or the kids or our extended family members, and we can re-assess when we get to North Carolina. She said we should talk about that later, and I agreed.

  Needless to say, I am happy with this outcome. I spent many nights crying that I was going to lose my wife and kids for so long.

  Some employment stuff turned up REALLY GOOD for North Carolina, and we put our South Florida investment property up for sale today.

  Folks, things are looking up! Though I'm still not counting my chickens, I am happy.

  -ithinkisee
• 

  TheListener

  Yaaaaaaa!!!!!

  I'll add (and this applies to me as well) that it's so sad that when we find out our wives won't leave us (at least right away ) over this we get so excited and exhilarated. It's sad but I can't help but feel good about it.

  Me, "You mean you're not going to leave me if I decide to stop being an active witness?"

  Her, "No, I won't leave you. I'll be disappointed in your choice, but you're a good husband and father and we're in this together."

  Me, to myself : Wow, after 2 years of worry I finally have confirmation that I can make my own choices without fear of losing my marriage....at least for now...

  Good for you IthinkIsee!
• 

  BrendaCloutier

  Yeah Team! You are both nearing the same page. For her to admit what she did was awesome. Backed up with your support, is even more awesome. She now knows you're not leaving her nor have you "left" Jehovah.

  Dust will settle. Things will swing. Maybe time to let her cogitate on all that's happened in the last several days.

  Folks, things are looking up! ; Though I'm still not counting my chickens, I am happy.

  Savour it. It doesn't happen easily.

  Hugs and love

  Bren
• 

  stevenyc

  itis,

  Very poistive!

  Just out of curiosity, do you, as a family, study the watchtower before Sundays? If you already do, then perhpas a little more 'indepth' study could be introduced. If you don't do this already, then bringing it up may cause to many waves right now.

  steve
• 

  daystar

  ITIS

  I feel you brother. Fingers/toes crossed. It sounds like you're making the right moves and have the right lady.
• 

  katiekitten

  You have worked really hard for this. You have earned it. One day your wife will see how brave you were to talk to her so honestly about your thinking and feelings.

  I wish you all the best through the inevitable set backs, towards the eventual conclusion.
• 

  ithinkisee

  ithinkisee.....Did you show her my thread on stauros and crucifixion?

  Heh. She does not know I am on this site yet.

  -ithinkisee
• 

  BrendaCloutier

  Ah, good. She's probably wondering where her pink bikini went. That one you don't want out of the closet yet!