The Country of Niger... A Call To Reason

by Doubtfully Yours 34 Replies latest social current

• 

  chrissy

  It's hardly an ignorant remark. I'm basing my knowledge on BBC world coverage.

  Oh Yes, of course, BBC world news coverage, why didnt you just say so? lol...I see. Pardon me then.

  So, obviously you are totally informed on such foreign matters. But when it comes to human kindness you still came across...

  If the people of Africa can't help each other out... why should we care?

  well, in your own words..."of the no-white-middle-class-guilt Class" . hey that's cool. I'm all about your honesty and guilt is a bitch.

  I suggest you get your head out of the sand.

  Err, care to elaborate?

  Actually, I was being sincere. I took Cultural Anthro and learned a great deal. It was much more of a general suggestion from one student to another than a sly remark, dude.
• 

  the_classicist

  Oh Yes, of course, BBC world news coverage, why didnt you just say so? lol...I see. Pardon me then.

  So, obviously you are totally informed on such foreign matters. But when it comes to human kindness you still came across...

  No I'm not "totally informed," but I do know three things: 1) the markets have a lot of food there, 2) those who are starving cannot afford the food, and 3) the government prefers to do nothing. You do the math.

  Actually, I was being sincere.

  Sorry, then. I'm in attack-dog mode today.
• 

  gespro

  Of course, life is complex, don't patronize me.

  I'll give you the respect a 46 year old should give an 18 year old.

  Why don't you get your nose out of your books and away from somewhat biased news reporting and take a trip over there if you really want to impress somebody, Mr.scholar?
• 

  the_classicist

  Why don't you get your nose out of your books and away from somewhat biased news reporting and take a trip over there if you really want to impress somebody, Mr.scholar?

  Where am I trying to impress anyone? Where did I ever try to rest on supposed "laurels?" (Besides my username, which is the only connection).

  Again, stop patronizing me. Unless you feel that age give you some kind of authority.
• 

  tetrapod.sapien

  If the people of Africa can't help each other out, even in their own country, why should we care?

  because we really don't have the right not to care, as humans. regardless of how corrupt it is there, we still have to care, and we still have to try. there are people suffering, and that should be enough, end of story. regardless of how futile it would seem.

  however, i agree that trade would be more beneficial than aid, if they had the infrastructure to support it, relatively free of corruption. do they?

  other types of "aid" that are more than simple wire transfers of money, are education, and diplomatic pressure. education inspires grassroots change on the generational level. and diplomatic pressure should not be pussy footing, like it currently is. are we educating africa in a true sense ? are our governments tough enough on despotic regimes that have no oil?

  of course, education is only going to go so far without other types of more basic "aid" like food, water and sanitation. does some of the food get stolen? yes. does some of it get through? yes. then what's the problem? that's the reality of the situation! get on with it!

  the catholic church has a lot to answer for here. they really have not helped the continent AT ALL.

  TS

  Along with food, why not also send ;enough health professionals to ;educate them about reproduction and its consequences in the midst of their horrible situation???!!!

  some agencies are trying to educate people. but education is not just a 6 month, in/out deal. it's a huge lifetime investment. the people with the money that could accomplish this (note: this is money going to aid agencies, not african despots), do not want to invest it that way. the return is way too risky for them! (WASPs!) and in turn, all the people that would be willing to relocate to africa to organize/maintain different aid levels for which education is the primary goal, do not have the money either.

  why is this? why do we just not get past this point?

  again, like in pretty much all my posts, i must point out that evolution is the answer to this question. we are not modern brained humans! we still have primitive brains and morals. our culture has evolved quickly, is all. we would prefer to hoard, and war, than to help and educate. that's a fact. it's extremely sad, but a fact none the less. evolution is the explanation for the behaviour , NOT the excuse for it.

  if we can't fix africa, then we really are just apes that had potential, but never quite made it to Human.

  TS
• 

  sonnyboy

  Along with food, why not also send enough health professionals to educate them about reproduction and its consequences in the midst of their horrible situation???!!!

  So religion is the sole problem that prevents Africans from using birth control? Money or lack of availability is not an issue?

  I'd like to see more info on this. Before I'd send food I'd send a crate of condoms with explicit instructions on how to use them. This may sound harsh, but sending food while looking away from the cause is not helping the problem...it's perpetuating it. They need to be properly educated. They need to realize that if they CHOOSE not to use birth control, and they CHOOSE to have sex, they're going to spread aids and bring starving children into the world. No one other than the severely mentally challenged is beyond being taught.

  We all have free will. If their religion is causing them to KILL THEMSELVES, someone needs to slap them upside the head and let them know. Religion is supposed to enrich our lives, not destroy them.
• 

  the_classicist

  the catholic church has a lot to answer for here. they really have not helped the continent AT ALL.

  What is the market-share of Catholicism in Africa?
• 

  zulukai

  I agree with being empathetic and as Chrissy says the issue is complex, complex beyond belief. There are even UN teams of doctors and nurses who have gone to these desperate countries and come out wringing their hands in despair over the fact that most of the people they try to help reject birth control information and/or the practice of same. In fact these teams have faced angry village elders converging on them for trying to educate the women.
  I have worked closely with islamic people from Africa and I can tell you that a woman is EXPECTED to have child after child (and they better be boys) even with no regard to her own health or she faces being abandoned for another wife. Her husband will have other wives anyway, but the birth of boys assures her economic well being inas much as she will be seen as valuable and have a roof over her head.
  How are you going to deal with THIS cultural imperative? A muslim man I worked with had a wife of about 35 years old who had already borne him 15 children and was told the next pregnancy would kill her. So he went to the Sudan to his village and married a 15 year old girl and stood around joking about the great sex he was having with this girl. More babies will soon be on the way. He was about 55 years old. He earned minimum wage and could barely keep his huge family fed as it was. He was always begging people for money for this and that.
  A lot of sympathetic people have NO idea that these countries where appalling numbers of people starve to death resent, yes resent Western nations and peoples interference in what they see as their problems. Sometimes these famines are created by the ruling junta to get rid of tribes they consider beneath the tribe in power. How are you going to deal with THIS cultural imperative?
  I used to make myself sick over the plight of African children and all the hideous wars and genocides. I watched part of a news report on TV when all the horror went down in Rawanda with my hand clamped over my mouth crying in disbelief. Where was the UN? Steadfastly looking away.
  What can you do with tribes of people who believe that other tribes of people are animals marked for extermination?
  This is the reality of most of the problems in Africa and it's ancient and will endure. Education, fair play and food for all and health care and clean water...these are all WESTERN values, and dare I say Christian values too. And yes I do know there are educated Muslims and for everything I have said here there is a contradiction and Muslim countries who have law and order. But Africa? Does anybody know what to do when the people in power don't want it anyway?
• 

  tetrapod.sapien

  What is the market-share of Catholicism in Africa?

  what does it matter? you tell me. you're a catholic, aren't you? anyways, does it matter what the current market-share of catholicism is? catholic atrocities started the moment they sent the first bloody preist there.

  if it makes you feel any better, the belgians, english, dutch, french and americans also have a lot to answer for. and they don't have that much market share left. what since they left africa in the mess it is, and/or "liberated" their slaves.

  zulukai,

  What can you do with tribes of people who believe that other tribes of people are animals marked for extermination?

  educate them. they may belong to a tribe, but they still need other types of aid. who cares what the history of their culture is? they need an education. the modern world has been forced on them. forced down their throats. they need a modern education. if they can retain their culture, then that is great too. if anything, an education might help them to keep the non-violent parts of their culture.

  This is the reality of most of the problems in Africa and it's ancient and will endure. Education, fair play and food for all and health care and clean water...these are all WESTERN values, and dare I say Christian values too.

  healthcare and clean water are not just western values. that said, i am all for secular education. keep the f**king religions out of africa.

  TS
• 

  the_classicist

  what does it matter? you tell me. you're a catholic, aren't you? anyways, does it matter what the current market-share of catholicism is? catholic atrocities started the moment they sent the first bloody preist there.

  You're the one who's blaming Africa's ills on Catholicism.

  I find it amazing that people blame the spread of AIDS on Catholicism's teaching when if those people who contribute to the spread of AIDS actually followed Catholic teaching in the first place, they wouldn't be in that situation (that is, unless they married someone with AIDS).