New Testament Paradise Earth

by TheListener 36 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Cygnus

  Rev. 5:10 isn't mistranslated in the NWT. There's plenty of arguments to use either "on" or "over" but a spacial element is definiely not applied.

  One thing that, I suppose, deserves consideration is that after Jesus was resurrected he spent 40 days with his disciples in an intensive teaching of the Kingdom of God, and in Acts 1:8 they still viewed it as earthly/political. Did they goof up after all that or would Jesus literally return to earth from heaven and drink real wine with his disciples again?

  Edited to add: Speaking of which, where's the clear wording in the NT that Christians are heaven-bound when they die and/or are resurrected? I think it's Ephesians that says "our citizenship resides in the heavens" but that doesn't say heaven is their final destination, just as a person could be conceived in Paris but born in Germany (in relation to the 'new creation' business). Joe Malik addressed John 14 where the word "heaven" isn't even used.
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  vitty

  This bothered me quite a bit, but then I would just put my head in the sand. I used to think when I read the bible that it was not really speaking to me but only the "annointed" If we are really at the brink of armageddon and the majority of the ppl on earth are of the great crowd, then surely the NT would have more to say to us (1 billion) than a mere 8 thousand remnant.

  Of course you can take on the principles of faith in the bible if you are part of the 144,00 or the other sheep but theres a big difference between going to heaven after you die or living on a paradise on earth forever, this other hope is never mentioned in the NT.

  Oh and if we are quoting scriptures Defd what about Rev 19 :1 Please give me your opinion on this one
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  hamsterbait

  
  In the latter verses of Romans 11, St Paul says that God's promises to the Jews as a nation were not canceled out because of the new covenant by Christ. Jews who became christians would of course get the christian hope. Yet the jews as a whole had been promised an earthly paradise in the future according to Isaiah and other OT prophets. Those who God left "bound up in error" would get the earthly resurrection promised to Jews and unbelieving Gentiles alike.

  I don't see a problem or contradiction here, as long as Rutherford's delusional twaddle is ignored. Also remember that St John's epistle says that apostates are those who deny Christ "coming in the flesh" - The OT promises that the Messiah will rule the Jews and other nations on earth where everyone knows God to the tops of the mountains.

  HB
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  TheListener

  BTT

  I would like to resurrect this thread to finish discussing Ithinisee's points that we didn't get to yet. I would like to hear any thoughts on these scriptures that defd brought up for starters:

  Ephesians 1:9-11

  9 in that he made known to us the sacred secret of his will. It is according to his good pleasure which he purposed in himself 10 for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, namely, to gather all things together again in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth. [Yes,] in him, 11 in union with whom we were also assigned as heirs, in that we were foreordained according to the purpose of him who operates all things according to the way his will counsels,

  Hebrews 2:5

  5 For it is not to angels that he has subjected the inhabited earth to come, about which we are speaking. 6 But a certain witness has given proof somewhere, saying: “What is man that you keep him in mind, or [the] son of man that you take care of him?

  2 Peter 3:13

  13 But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.

  I would also like to hear thoughts about hamsterbait's comment as well.

  I will say for myself that it does seem likely that the earth will remain and become paradise like. I'm not confident in saying that mankind would be living upon it in perfection, but I believe the earth will be here.

  I've heard the arguments that say the OT scriptures that talk about the earth being here forever in a paradise condtion and mankind forever residing upon it are figurative. That does make sense because the Israelites needed to understand God's promises to them. However, if it was just figurative what was the actual plan God had for the Israelites? Would they actually have gone to heaven and ruled with Christ over the universe?

  When the plan changed and the Israelites didn't accept Jesus they became open for anyone who showed faith to enter into a close relationship with Jesus. This then put them in line for the blessings that the Isaelites alone would have enjoyed. The question is then, what blessings are followers of Christ in line for in place of the faithfless Israelites?
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  AuldSoul

  I think the reason JWs don't use Hebrews 2:5 is because of its proximity to Hebrews 2:7,8.

  Hebrews 2:7-8 — You made him a little lower than angels; with glory and honor you crowned him, and appointed him over the works of your hands. All things you subjected under his feet.” For in that he subjected all things to him [God] left nothing that is not subject to him. Now, though, we do not yet see all things in subjection to him;

  It wasn't subjected to people. Nor was it subjected to angels. It was subjected to a human who became a spirit, whom the angels themselves worship. (Hebrews 1:6) It will be given to the meek and righteous when they become spirits, as well.

  There will be a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous. I encourage anyone interested in the resurrection to life to consider the usage of the Greek word "zoe" (Strong's g2222) throughout the NT. (Narkissos, that is a Greek word, right? )

  I have selected some verses that use it, and highlighted where they appear. It paints an interesting picture when compared with WTS dogma.

  AuldSoul

  ---

  Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

  Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

  Jhn 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

  Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

  Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

  Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

  Jhn 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

  Jhn 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

  Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believe.

  Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

  Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

  Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

  1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

  Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

  Thought to ponder on Revelation 2:7 — Did the congregation in Ephesus have an earthly resurrection to look forward to?
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  ithinkisee

  This is one of those posts that Def'd skulked away from.

  -ithinkisee
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  Narkissos

  Here is an excerpt from the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, I, 678f, which might be helpful -- I transliterate the Greek:

  The OT and ancient oriental description of the world in terms of heaven and earth persists in the NT... Heaven and earth (= the world) will pass away (Mk. 13:31 and par.; cf. Mt. 5:18; Lk. 16:17; Hb. 1:10f.; 2 Pt. 3:7; Rev. 21:1), and in place of this world, of the first heaven and earth (hè prôtè gè, Rev. 21:1; cf. 2 Pt. 3:7) God will create a new heaven and earth (ouranon kainon kai gèn kainèn, Rev. 21:1; kainous ouranous kai gèn kainèn, 2 Pt. 2:13; cf. Is. 65:17; 66:22). It would be wrong to emphasise the word gè in exegesis of these passages or to read into them the metaphysical antithesis of heaven and earth discussed below... New heaven and new earth is merely the older way of denoting what is meant by aiôn mellôn [the age to come] in terms of the aiôn concept, namely, the future world of eschatological expectation. Heaven and earth together constitute the cosmos. Together with them, according to the OT view (Ex. 20:11; Ps. 145:6), the sea is a third constituent part of the world; the word gè is thus restricted to the totality of solid land, which is thought of as a single unit surrounded by and resting on the sea (Ac. 4:24; 14:15; Rev. 10:6; 14:7; 21:1). A further restriction is that the waters of earth are sometimes separated from the dry land (Hb. 11:29): to triton tès gès... tès thalassès... tôn potamôn [the third part of the earth... the sea... and the rivers] (Rev. 8:7ff.; cf. 14:7). Another division is between what is in heaven, on the earth, and under the earth... Here the earth is the middle of the cosmos, cf. Rev. 5:3: oudeis... en tô ouranô oude epi tès gès oude hupokatô tès gès [nobody... in heaven nor on the earth or beneath the earth]. The NT, especially in eschatological passages, presupposes definite though not very consistent cosmological conceptions. Nevertheless, in contrast to Jewish apocalyptic (e.g. the books of Enoch), it does not contain any true cosmological teaching. Even in Revelation the cosmological ideas are wholly subordinate to the theological.