Creationist Answer Please (page 2)

skyman

What I am after is for people to start thinking out of the box. There is no answer just the exercise of the mind. But latey some have been trying to answer the Question one theory is Parallel universes. The Think tanks of today think that two Parallel unviverses collided and the big bang happened. Which exsplains the E=MC^2 and exsplains GOD. The other is that time is looped and once you reach the end you are at the beginning. I don't think much of the later but both exsplains the E=MC^2. So Yes it can be explained with out The GOD OF creation.

the_classicist

WHO created GOD. The every reason you will not believe in evolution is because you say someone had to create us.The same argument is back at you. Who created GOD someone had to. Don't tell me he allway exsisted. I can say life allways exsisted on one planet or another life has allway been there. This does not make sense does it so neither does GOD always exsisted. It seems to me Both sides have one and the same problem. THE BEGINNING>

I believe the argument would work thusly:

1) Everything that has a beginning has a mover..

2) God/Ineffable deity has no beginnning; therefore, there is no need of a mover, or primary cause.

You will then say, that we cannot prove that God has no beginning. Such a thing cannot be proven scientifically; of course, neither can the primary premise of Christian revelation: 1) There is a God. How then is man to know it? A Christian (assuming the above question is proposed to such a person) would answer that man knows it by God's self-revelation made fully manifest when his Son, who is both God and the Son of God consubstantial with the Father, became man and took upon Himself human nature which exists within His godhead in hypostatic union. By His Resurrection from death, he revealed himself in glory to his Apostles.

Then you will ask, if God wanted us all to know that he exists, why didn't he reveal himself at all times to everyone?

God requires faith, for faith is an act of free will. For God to manifest himself in a way to convince every individual would negate free well (presumably). Faith is both an action of the intellect, by receiving what we have heard through the testimony of the Apostles and their disciples, and an action of God's grace, which allows faith to flourish.

tetrapod.sapien

1) Basic Law of the Universe; E=MC^2. Matter, anything in the material world, cannot be created or destroyed- it can only change states (solid, liquid, gas); therefore, everything that is, is because God caused it to become. HE is the ever existing source of all matter and energy. HE ALWAYS has been and always will be- you cannot ignore the Basic Law of the Universe.

sharona,

so by this logic, God IS Energy. are you a Pantheist? you cannot separate god from energy according to this logic. simply saying:

"it's so obvious, he always has BEEN, and he CAUSED it to become" is really just wishful thinking. you cannot prove he caused anything. and still, the question stands, even after your answer, where did he come from? you can't just stop the logic arbitraily wherever you wish. if all things came from god, then god came from somewhere. THAT much IS obvious.

2) About 95% of all matter is "missing" in the Universe. ; Scientists know that it is there, somewhere, they just don't know how or where to find it. ; Gee, you'd think it would occur to them that maybe God is what they should be looking for, then they'd find all that "missing" matter.

so then, according to what you say about einstein, 95% of god is missing. are you an agnostic?

if there were even one shred of evidence for god's existence, then i would say that scientists would be looking for him.

BTW, welcome to the board,

TS

skyman

2) God/Ineffable deity has no beginnning; therefore, there is no need of a mover, or primary cause

I thank you for your answer the simple fact is what you believe is the same as the Evolutionist because you are trying to prove a start that could not of had a start both theory's are destroyed at this point so the Evolutionist have to have faith something started everything and so does the Creationist. So why not look at the fact. The Evolutionist do look at the facts. The Creations don't they go on blind faith that does not need facts,.

God requires faith, for faith is an act of free will

DannyBloem

What I am after is for people to start thinking out of the box. There is no answer just the exercise of the mind. But latey some have been trying to answer the Question one theory is Parallel universes. The Think tanks of today think that two Parallel unviverses collided and the big bang happened. Which exsplains the E=MC^2 and exsplains GOD. The other is that time is looped and once you reach the end you are at the beginning. I don't think much of the later but both exsplains the E=MC^2. So Yes it can be explained with out The GOD OF creation.

This is not really what scientists are thinking at the moment.
E = M does not have to be explained by the creation, it is just one of the laws of physics. It follows from other laws.

here is a link (I got from elsewhere I guess, in another thread), about theories about what caused the Big bang.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

The third hour of videos says something about what you mean (I guess)

Big Dog

When I took physics at the university I remember one of my professors saying that the most fundamental question that couldn't be answered was, why is there anything instead of nothing.

I have always felt that if there is a g/God(s), but more specifically one of the christian type (all knowing, all powerfull, etc.) that they would exist outside of time and the constraints of our physical universe and how we define it. So to say that they always existed, were without beginning or end made sense to me if you were going to take that view of God. To say, well you argue that we had a maker, then who made God doesn't work, God would be the exception to the rule.

ezekiel3

Great question!

Creationists place God outside of creation and thus outside of Time. Thus no beginning or end.

But this also places God outside of proof. While this frustrates the scientist, the creationist lounges in the comfort of Faith and is relieved from the burden of proof.

You have hit on the reason why religion and science are always at odds.

Religion assumes something and tries to prove it.
Science assumes nothing and tries to disprove it.

A personal God is essentially non-verifiable because that entity exists outside the sphere of our reality.

For example: try to prove to me that we are not "inside the Matrix." You can't! Is that a reason to believe that the movies are non-fiction?

ezekiel3

Another hypothesis as valid as "God" is:

A higher being (who happens to be a young higher being still in school) has created a universe as a study project and is observing our progress. Occasionally that being will cause "supernatural" things to happen. These miracles have not happened recently while because the higher being is off at a religious retreat.

Disprove that!

seattleniceguy

Ezekiel,

For example: try to prove to me that we are not "inside the Matrix." You can't! Is that a reason to believe that the movies are non-fiction?

That is a very good example of an unfalsifiable claim. It's much better than the one I currently use because it's concise and most people are aware of the general framework. Up until now, I've had to demonstrate an unfalsifiable claim with some example about someone who believes the universe exists only in his mind, or somesuch, but it always comes off seeming a bit vague. This is a very good example. Thanks!

SNG

foreword

I hope this sounds coherent. I don't feel like spending hours trying to formulate this right.

Creationists swear by the bible. In other words, if god exists, evolution does not. But if evolution exists, species adapting to their environment, and I believe this is the case, and as you say are verified somewhat by facts, it does not automatically exclude a creator. The beginning, as you say is unverifiable in both cases of creation and evolution. If I say I believe in creation, you will automatically lump me up with creationist who believe everything was created static, without the possibility of adaptive changes. Personally, I've never even read this in the bible.

It is stupid for creationists to deny that species can adapt. We as humans adapt everyday to changes in our world, so yes evolution does exist and I think that if god exists and created us, he did this with this possibility of change, sometimes necessary to survival.

My only argument for creation is simply the intelligence which seems to exist behind everything. I do not use the bible for my arguments, since it has been discussed plenty here and it appears the bible has holes in it and the possibility exists that maybe god is not behind the writings of the bible. So I really can't use the book to prove anything.

No one has a leg to stand on. Proofs are rare. It's just hard for me to believe it all came out of chance. So then it becomes a personal choice to believe that our universe came about as a result of chemical and biological catalysts or someone had a hand in it.

Your guess is as good as mine I suppose.

Mark

Creationist Answer Please

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