Forget the 10 Commandments Follow the book of Tao instead....

by EvilForce 28 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Pole

  Daunt,
  
  Yeah, I guess I'd have to do some more research to come up with "a final" judgment. ;-)
  
  JamesThomas,
  
  

  That said, it is not about following or believing anything, for this rout will lead again and again to division. It's about letting go of everything believed, followed and thought, and seeing unequivocally what you really are, just under all which we believe ourselves to be...be it man, woman, Taoist, Christian, or atheist.

  
  
  I haven't responded to your other post on a different thread, because I wasn't quite clear what you meant, but now I am beginning to se a certain consistency in your views. So, you wouldn't over-estimate the value of "input" whatever form it may assume, right?
  
  A small question. Can you remain Christian or Taoist after applying your advice to the full, though? (You can certainly remain a man and a woman, or not?). LOL.
  
  Pole
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  JamesThomas

  So, you wouldn't over-estimate the value of "input" whatever form it may assume, right?

  The value of intellectual "input" is in realizing it is not the significant Reality we desire. We may not know or be clear on what it is we seek, but we know words and thoughts don't suffice.

  Can you remain Christian or Taoist after applying your advice to the full, though? (You can certainly remain a man and a woman, or not?).

  Why not see for yourself? Nothing I say means anything.

  Can consciousness shift it's gaze upon itself? Can a bottomless vastness be entered? Is there a Self so limitless, pure and pristine that it can not be labeled or confined within any phenomenal identity? You tell me.

  j
• 

  EvilForce

  I got my Taoist feet wet with Tao of Pooh and Te of Piglet...great books!
  
  The funny thing is that even true Taoists wouldn't prescribe that the whole world follow the Tao. Accepting the world for what it is, is what the Tao teaches. JT and my thoughts are very similar...slightly different.
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  Big Dog

  JT, I understand the advice you are giving, but I think that outside of possibly a handful Tibetan or Shoalin Monks very, very, very few people can achieve the type of introspection you prescribe, especially those that live in Western societies.
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  JamesThomas

  very, very, very few people can achieve the type of introspection you prescribe

  BD, that is a popular belief, but like all other beliefs, it's b.s..

  The mind tightly embracing it's false identity, would like us to believe it is so difficult that we don't even entertain the thought of awakening. However, all we are turning within to discover is our true Identity which is present and intact - already. No need to earn It, or evolve to It, we already are IT. That we are generally totally blind to it, is what is amazing.

  j
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  kls

  Why do we need any books ? They are all someone elses ideas and as all books go and why follow someone elses idea on how to live . Makes no difference who wrote it but its their ideas and written thoughts that can be rewritten and taken literally which is not always what is meant . So why follow others thoughts when you have the Bible that is also so screwed up.

  But this is just me and my thoughts
• 

  Pole

  JT,
  

  The value of intellectual "input" is in realizing it is not the significant Reality we desire. We may not know or be clear on what it is we seek, but we know words and thoughts don't suffice.

  
  OK. No problem with that. I guess the problem of language and cognition has been recognized in Western philosophy as well.
  

  Why not see for yourself? Nothing I say means anything.

  
  What I meant was that once you reach that stage, being Christian or whatever is the label you stick onto yourself ceases to make any sense.
  

  Can consciousness shift it's gaze upon itself? Can a bottomless vastness be entered? Is there a Self so limitless, pure and pristine that it can not be labeled or confined within any phenomenal identity? You tell me.

  
  Again - a problem tackled, although not solved in Western philosophy. Some "definitions" of "the Absolute" would be close to what you seem to be describing. Nothing new under the Sun.
  Actually, there are no definitions of the Absolute by definition. LOL. Ain't that just funny? So, please don't ask me to reveal the mystery of super-consciousness and the Absolute in a single post. LOL. thanks for your thoughts though. i do appreciate them. And I do have to cope with those challenges you've identified on a daily basis ;-)
  Big Dog,
  

  JT, I understand the advice you are giving, but I think that outside of possibly a handful Tibetan or Shoalin Monks very, very, very few people can achieve the type of introspection you prescribe, especially those that live in Western societies.

  
  There is not even this handful of superconscious humans. Just as there are no monks mystics who "truly" understand the "meanining" of father Pio's stigmata. And there is no bunch of men in Brooklyn who are God's sole channel of communication. It's all mystical bulshit. Trust yourself, as JT teaches us. So with the exception of this reservation, I guess I agree with you.
  Pole
• 

  BrendaCloutier

  (Off topic but response to JT and others philosophy)

  No need to earn It, or evolve to It, we already are IT. That we are generally totally blind to it, is what is amazing.

  More simply stated: Wherever I go, there I am!

  However simplicity is not always easy to understand to achieve.

  It is far easier for me to comprehend the universe going on forever - infinity 1,000,~000 etc +1 - than to comprehend a limited universe inside of what? Nothingness? For me to comprehend nothingness requires something.

  Instrospection and the discovery of who we are, after years of being told what we "should" be, is difficult. For me it has taken forgiving myself for who I'd tried to become, and allowing myself the exploration of ... spirit and self - outer and inner - above and below. The rewards, the gifts, the beginning of insight is incredible!

  Ok. I shall now allow you to resume the original thread.
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  melmoth

  I have lately been exploring Buddhism in earnest, and am finding it a very natural fit. For those unfamiliar: it's better described as having elements of both philosophy and to some extent psychology, than as a 'religion' in any western sense.
  OK, let me amend that - I have also seen from my reading and frequent travels into Buddhist countries that it has accumulated a lot of ritual (if not mumbo-jumbo) over the centuries, which seem to have little to do with the fundamental teachings (or observations). At this point, I am drawn most strongly to Zen, although I'm early in my explorations.
  As for the comment that western philosophy/psychology is more interesting, or what you might call intellectually approachable, that kind of misses its point. You can hold something like Buddhism up and examine it from various angles, but you need to sink into it or else it's just an academic exercise. It's a bit like trying to assess how comfortable a chair is by detailing the sophistication of its construction, rather than just sitting.
  Tao also is interesting, and similar, but somehow less satisfying for me.
  The problem of course is that so many people want rules to live by, not principles. Even Jesus boiled it down to 'just love' but it didn't take any time at all for people to want to figure out 'what he really meant by that' and of course that continues, unabated.
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  BrendaCloutier

  melmoth, kind of like explaining a native american sweat lodge is hot and dirty and full of smoke and uncomfortable. You don't get the understanding without subjecting yourself to the lodge, the process, and the experience.