by Amazing1914 72 Replies latest jw friends
Dave,
I am not defending or taking anything all so seriously. I was merely explaining as you were ... that is why I said none of this insulted me as you feared. Like I said, I am confortable in my own skin ... and my current state of happiness is not rattled by anyting we discuss. I think we both have a better understanding.
Thanks, Jim
Jim,
It was the soapbox comment that threw me. Thought you were a little upset.
Yes the 60s were different(from what I hear today). I left in the early 70s so haven't seen directly how it changed. Your description was just about like I remembered it back then. I didn't have any real problem with the borg. I was just tired of it all and wanted to live my life for myself for a while. That was a good decision for me and I have no regrets.
Ken P.
Jim,
I'm sorry if I've offended you in any way. Perhaps it was the "we rocked" that got my blood up a few degrees. I do appreciate you and your contributions. I'm sorry, again.
Before my mom allowed herself to get involved in the jw cult(ure), we too, went to Catholic church. Very early in my childhood we went to Caticism {sp}, as it was our foster parents religion of choice. And in order to actually get there, we had to walk a long dirt road. Sometimes when it was pouring down rain. EDITED TO ADD: [i realize that this paragraph may not make sense...perhaps someday i will elaborate in order to do so]
What stood out in those lessons were that when it rained it meant god was crying, so we had better haul ass to get there because we were making god cry. When it thundered we were told god was bowling. There were numerous other pieces of crap we were fed, YET, none of that damaged any of my connections I felt I had established with God.
Not until the Watchtower came rolling down the tracks.
That is when the freight train hit me dead on in every way spiritually. It mangled everything I held dear.
I guess this thread just hit some dead scar tissue. Please accept my apologies for basically hijacking your thread.
Sincerely, sKally
Dave, you are just too darn funny. Can't stop laughing. Should sleep good tonight.
The salad days of an evil cult lends me no nostalgia. While the JW nobility of the day where having rocking good times, the JW serfs were inevitibly harmed by the perverse reverse trickle down from the JW nobility's "wholesome" good times (we're happy, why aren't you?").
Much like today, IMO.
I guess it's all perspective, but I see today's WT as a natural progression from 1970's WT. What, bad beliefs and authoritarianism are gonna evolve into something good?
Those were his salad days, and he thought they might last forever.
--David Gergen, " 'They Love You. Watch Out,' " New York Times , February 2, 1997
Salad days was coined by Shakespeare in Antony and Cleopatra : "My salad days,/ When I was green in judgment, cold in blood."
Salad days was coined by Shakespeare in Antony and Cleopatra : "My salad days,/ When I was green in judgment, cold in blood."
Or was it, "I Caeser salad, supped it down, and now King Waldorf has nicked my crown"?...lol Maybe not.
As to Jim's post, well I think that sometimes we make the mistake of assuming that all our experiences within the WTS were the same as other peoples - or at least, that they ought to have been! As has been mentioned, being raised as a JW leaves a person with very different memories than those who became JW's in later life. Out social environments too have a big say in how we remember our past years. For example, if the misery of poverty or abuse were part of our memories, our worldview of that time may be clouded.
I was sucked in as a young adult, baptised in the very early 70's. The first couple of years as a inducted JW always has a certain euphoria attached to it, and one that we often spend years afterward trying to rediscover. I hated my life as a JW as soon as I became a MS in '74 and begun to smell the stench that the monster left in its trail, but until then, like Jim, I had few complaints.
As such I can compare with an adult mind the changes I saw over the years as a JW, and undoubtedly during the 80's and 90's there was a marked and sinister mood change as the GB became more and more paranoid and began pulling at the strings until non-one could draw a free breath. What was once a difficult life to live, now became unbearable.
I think that Jim was just trying to paint an impressionistic view of life back then as a JW and compare it to what it has become, and I think he did it rather well.
HS
Interesting thread...
My mother became a dub around 1973; I was baptized the next year at the age of 14.
People in our congregation were already waxing nostalgic about how fun the assemblies used to be, the cong. picnics, the parties etc...Many spoke fondly of the old P.O. (I think his name was Everett Six) and seemed to be unhappy with the new elder arrangement.
By the time we were really in the thick of things, the R&F were feeling that 1975 would come and go with no big A in sight. They were also chafing under all the new rules and regs. Every watchtower study had a chastising tone.
I got the feeling that we had just missed the glory days. After the love-bombing was over and we were all baptized things got really depressing.
Any way you look at it, being a JW is not a great life path. But perhaps it got worse over the years?
Eva
Hi everyone,
First, Skally, no offense taken. Second, thanks Dave, enjoyed your post. While I was not expecting any particular reaction, I can understand if my 'Rockin' rocked your boat a little. However it was said from a different perspective.
When I joined the JWs, we had far less, in fact almost no critical information, about the movement. The times of the late 60s and early 70s were anti-social, anti-religious, and anti-government. Long hair and beards were in, drugs were cool, sex was free, sort of, kind of, maybe a little. Viet Nam captured the news, civil rights were gaining front and center, and the churches didn't get it. The stock market was going goofy, oil prices were on the rise, and inflation was heating up along with higher interest rates.
Jehovah's Witnesses presented a fresh perspective. Remember, to a newbie, the JWs did not come in an talk about failed prophecies, missed birthdays, or child molesters. They talked about a soon to be realized Paradise earth, with all the trimmings ... and in a world that appeared to be falling apart, Paradise was welcome news.
JWs were not as paranoid. Added to the mix was the fact that at least JWs could have some fun. Who cared about Christmas when you could go to the beach with good clean friends, have a picnic, roast marshmellows, toast with a beer (you could toast then), and sing various songs, including non-JW songs, tell tall tales, and know that these nice folks would be with you into Paradise - by no later than 1975.
JW kids back then: JW kids our age and a little younger welcomed us with big arms. No, they may well have been starving for affection and more friends, and seeing an inrush of new young people certainly validated their beliefs and lessened the stong they felt growing up in the organization. So, as long as this increae from the outside held out, perhaps for them, for a time, it was not all that bad. I am sure in some homes it was hell ... but that can be said for any home in any religion.
JWs were new, and so they seem to rock at the time. Once the sheen wore off, and the hard realities began to catch up to the fantasy, the rockin and rollin started to fade rather fast. Part of it was growing up more, and part of it was that the religion was not really what it appeared to be at first. It was in truth, not really a religion as much as it is a publishing corporation with religious-minded volunteers.
My only regret is that I didn't follow my own plan to leave by 1978, if Paradise had not arrived. I had learned of 1914, and decided that by 1978, it would be clear that the prophecy was false, and I should get out. But, by then, I had four children, and built up a host of friends and support. Leaving was not an easy option. Furthermore, I somehow forgot about my promise to myself, or I allowed myself to suck into giveing the Society more time. Whatever my reasoning, it caused my to remain a JW fourteen more years until the spring of 1992.
My own children: I raised them as JWs. I tried to make life as fun as possible. They don't care that they missed birthdays or Christimas, as they understood those were our beliefs. The girls do wish they could have gone to the Prom. By the time we were getting out, my youngest son got to go to the Prom. Other than that, my kids were treated fine in school. The teachers were nice about working with us, and we supported the teachers, including my wife working as a volunteer teachers assistant.
I saw disturbing issues: As an Elder and experienced JW, I saw the wrong ways people were treated. I saw the pedophiles pile up. I began to question. I questioend my own internal angst and unhappiness. I searched and one day found the answers, starting with Crisis of Conscience. It still took six more years, but the day came ...
... when it came time to leave: My wife and kids were right with me. I was surprised, because had I trusted my good relationship with them more, I would have moved faster, and given them a few more months or non-JW life in their youth.
JWs today: I can't even imagine being a JW today. I can't even fathom what the kids are going through now. I cannot understnad what is holding JWs to the organization now, given that it is 91 years since 1914. How the adult JWs of today who were in the organization in the 1970s and 1980s can remain is a deep mystery. 1914 is proven false from every possible angle. yet, for them, as for me, there is something holding them to this psychotic belief system.
I can't be sorry that we rocked. As I said, it was the best of times and the worst of times. It was a different time ... and one that came to mind on the 35th anniversary of my baptism into the JW world.
Jim W.
I think the big difference between JW's then and now is the lack of urgency, in that now there is none. Nothing a "date" wouldn't fix though.
Kwin
