Lend me your Apostapowers, trying to help someone out of the org

by wanderlustguy 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Now What?
    Now What?
    For him is going to have to be completely bible based, or internal WTS publication conflicts, secular information (at this point) is almost useless.

    Pursuing the FDS argument might be tricky then until there are other cracks in the armor.

    Do witnesses get married? Is it before an official of the congregation? Are witnesses to the ceremony present (best man/bridesmaid)? Have wedding rings? Bride wear white? If so, where in the Bible does it say to do these things? If the Bible is your sole authority, how can this be justified? If your bro looks up the WT publications, he will find the curious expression "tradition" and a downplay of the pagan history of wedding rings. Hmmm so what about other 'traditions'?

    If that doesn't work, maybe question the authority of the Bible itself. Who decided what books are inspired and belong in the Canon? Is there an inspired 'Table of Contents' somewhere? Why are some books Jesus quotes from left out of the canon but others are included that no-one in the NT quotes from at all? Out of the 6 Gospels (Matthew, Peter, Thomas, John, Mark & Luke), why are the two that were left out from apostles (Peter &Thomas) but two that were included from non-apostles (Mark & Luke)? Who decided that? Why is there a big hole between the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek, when in the Septuagint this is covered?

    If all else fails, ping on Luke 21:8, the "end is near part" (they say due time has approached, but same meaning no matter how you slice it)

    Just a few questions for him

  • Hellrider
    Hellrider

    Sit him down in front of a computer, then press:

    http://www.jwfiles.com/

    ...then press "large list of predictions" under "false predictions of the society". Read thru all of it. It might take 5-6 hours (you have NO idea how much crap they`ve put out over the years). Then, when he`s done, ask him: Is this Gods "prophet" on earth?

  • wanderlustguy
    wanderlustguy

    Thanks for all the input...here is what I sent...will keep you guys posted.

    BTW, Tetrapod...good call.

    cognitive dissonance:

    • An inconsistency among some experiences, beliefs, attitudes, or feelings. According to dissonance theory, this sets up an unpleasant state that people try to reduce by reinterpreting some part of their experiences to make them consistent with the others.
    • Cognitive dissonance is a psychological phenomenon first identified by Leon Festinger. It occurs when there is a discrepancy between what a person believes, knows and values, and persuasive information that calls these into question. The discrepancy causes psychological discomfort, and the mind adjusts to reduce the discrepancy. In ethics, cognitive dissonance is important in its ability to alter values, such as when an admired celebrity embraces behavior that his or her admirers deplore. Their dissonance will often result in changing their attitudes toward the behavior. Dissonance also leads to rationalizations of unethical conduct, as when the appeal and potential benefits of a large amount of money makes unethical actions to acquire it seem less objectionable than if they were applied to smaller amounts.
    This is a phenomenon in the human mind a lot of cultures use to "control" peoples thought processes, if you will. It can make you convince yourself you didn't really experience something you actually did, or alter your perception of events and/or others actions, even change what you would and would not tolerate before removing yourself from a threatening situation. Kind of like when dad used to tell us mom left because she just didn't want to stay with him anymore, or when him and Rhonda used to tell us they were never together until after he and mom split up...simply wasn't true, but we didn't argue the point because we knew it wasn't allowed, so eventually we accepted two truths together, the one we knew was true and the one we were told was true by their explanation since we were taught to respect our father. About truth and honesty...they were "honest" in that they were together only when mom and dad split up...but split up could have meant she "left" to go get a part from another town, and they were separated for the two hours it took for her to do it...so to some people is would not be a lie...but it still is as far as what we are looking for. So now we get to the next one, this one is a little tough because it is not bible based, but part of a larger issue. I had heard of this UN thing back a few years ago, and asked about it, because I remember the Revelation book about the UN, and wondered how could it be that the Society would register with the UN when they wouldn't allow brothers in other countries to register to vote (even if they didn't vote) to stay out of prison. I was told it was to access the library at the UN, and didn't mean anything in the way of support at the time they registered. So not wanting to take anyone's word for it, I asked more questions and dug a little deeper. Since the United States is part of the UN, all the information about is is public and on public servers, so anyone can get copies of records. The thing is, these organizations could care less about an NGO, and all of their information is public, so if they lie, you can find out about it very easily. They (The Society) registered in 1991 with the UN as a non-governmental organization agreeing with and promoting the goals of the United Nations. The terms for registering were set in 1968, and are attached. In short...you have to agree, in writing, to support and promote the United Nations (I attached the resolution made in 1968 about this) to be an NGO and "get access to the library". It seems that if the UN is who they said they are,then everything in the resolution would conflict with our beliefs. Could you imagine what the brothers would say if your job was to wash windows at the UN? This was the first thing that made me question everything...and I'm still questioning. If they had just told me "we didn't realize when we signed up we were agreeing to support the UN", I would have bought that, but they specifically said this "signing up" didn't conflict with our beliefs ...and this was written by the society in a letter to the body of elders. Here's a typed copy...although it was sent only in printed form, which I have seen one of.

    WORLD HEADQUARTERS OF JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES 25 columbia Heights, Brooklyn, NY 11201-2483 Tel 718 560 5000

    November 1, 2001
    Via Compuserve

    Branch Committee

    Dear Brothers:

    Because of published allegations by opposers that we have secret links with the United Nations, a number of branches have inquired about the matter as we have replied. This circular letter replaces any replies we have given earlier and is sent to all branches. To anyone inquiring within your branch territory you might respond according to what is stated below:

    Our purpose for registering with the department of Public Information as a non governmental organisation (NGO) in 1991 was to have access to research material available on health, ecological and social problems at the United Nations library facilities. We had been using the library for many years prior to 1991, but in that year it became necessary to register as an NGO to have continued access. Registration papers filed with the United Nations that we have on file contain no statements that conflict with our Christian beliefs. Moreover, NGOs are informed by the United Nations that “association of NGOs with the DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status”.

    Still, the criteria for Association of NGOs – at least in their latest version – contain language that we cannot subscribe to. When we realized this, we immediately withdrew our registration. We are grateful that this matter was brought to our attention.

    We trust that the above is, helpful in counteracting attempts of opposers to discredit us.

    Please be assured of our warm Christian love and best wishes

    Your Brothers

    Chairman’s Committee

    c: Administration Offices Desks
    Legal Department
    Office of Public Information

  • Hellrider
    Hellrider

    " Our purpose for registering with the department of Public Information as a non governmental organisation (NGO) in 1991 was to have access to research material available on health, ecological and social problems at the United Nations library facilities"

    ...that`s just ridicolous, and we all know it. That tiny amount of pseudo-science they use in the WT and Awake (you know, the "look at this human eye...it consists of 2 billion tiny particles and cells, all perfectly combined in a divine manner to make vision possible...could evolution create something like this? Or was it our Lord Jehovah that perfected the eye...etc etc etc pseudoscience"-crap, they could easily have found elsewhere. I don`t know whatever the reasons were for signing up with the U.N, but it certainly wasn`t that.

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